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Any runners on the forum? SD tools while running.

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by gossamer, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    Glistam: thank you. This is a helpful response.
    I hope you're able to get the MD laws rectified soon.
     
  2. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    No, just a guy who likes to run and expresses more than one thought in a sentence. Please read the whole thing:

     
  3. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I can't run in more than shorts and a t-shirt. I feel every extra ounce.

    My distance runs are significantly slower per mile than my short (2-3 mile) runs. I used to run at least 5x a week. Just as it's foolish and arrogant for anyone to tell you what you "should" do, it's foolish and arrogant to think it's possible to speak for everyone who does a certain activity.

    John
     
  4. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    If I were in your shoes, I'd give the Kimber Pepperblaster some consideration. If not interested in that, just ensure that the OC you do carry fires in a direct bead, rather than a spray cone. That will give you much better range and will significantly reduce (though not eliminate) your own suffering when you fire it. Therein lies the problem with OC spray, IMO at least: Both the target and the user will feel some of the effects.

    If you've ever been sprayed with OC, or used it on someone else, you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't been sprayed, and you plan to continue carrying it, you should seriously consider convincing a close friend or family member to spray you in the safety of your backyard. That experience isn't going to reduce the effects of it in the future, but it will give you the advantage of knowing how you react to it, which will reduce or eliminate panic if you end up using (and therefore feeling) it in the future.

    If you decide to do this, the setup is simple. You'll want a hose turned on and laying in the grass close (10ft or so) to where you get sprayed. Follow the instructions on the canister regarding use (distance, method, length of burst) when you're sprayed. After you're sprayed, you'll want to rinse your face and eyes thoroughly in the hose. Stay outside until you can keep your eyes open to see well enough to function on your own. This time varies from 10-35 minutes or so, depending on the person. Have the friend or family member who sprayed you stay with you during that time, possibly fan you with a small towel. After that's done, go inside and take as cold a shower as possible. Note that water does activate the spray, and will reactivate it in the shower (it will have dried during the 15-35 mins outside). Wash thoroughly with Johnson's tear-free baby shampoo. Rub the soap into your open eyes, and flush thoroughly. After the shower, just lie down under a ceiling fan for an hour or two. The burning should be completely gone by the time you wake up next day.

    Obviously that doesn't sound like much fun, and in my experience, it's downright awful. It's also totally beneficial to any user, which is why all LE who carry it are forced to go through this process.

    Short of all that, carry a collapsible baton and a knife. A fixed blade is a good idea. This Ka-Bar TDI weighs just a few ounces, is built very well, and is designed for self-defense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  5. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    John: Your point about the shirt is what I'm getting at. It's just not feasible for me on my runs here 9 months out of the year. Day time temps at 55° and up usually mean shorts and a tshirt maximum for me. Hence I'm seeking ideas in the non-firearm forum. Also, I'm just not wild about the possibility of defending myself legally and losing my CCW because I wasn't complying with the law on concealment.

    Also, I wasn't trying to speak for everyone who runs. When I said "we" in terms of pace, I was merely talking about people who train using the 90stride/minute protocol -- not all runners. Apologies if I came across as speaking for everyone.


    Bobson: Thanks for the link to the Kimber item. I've never seen or heard about it until now and it looks like a possible option. One question I have that is unclear from the link: Is it merely a 'trigger' or is there an OC capsule contained in there too? If it's an all-in-one that looks like a winner.

    Having discharged an OC spray before, I have no desire to do it again. The words "miserable" and "WHY?!" come to mind. As does the idea that our running paths here provide for no less than a very a looooooong walk to the closest water source. Add that to my running pal getting a face-full and, yes, concentrated is best.

    The OC I have now was an impulse buy at a LGS. It's only benefit is that it's small. Beyond that, I'd probably be better off throwing it at an offender than using as directed.
     
  6. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Ok, no problem. :)

    I really do understand needing to keep your gear light. I feel even a watch cap, and running in issue PT pants is difficult for more than a couple of laps. At the same time, I'm a dog lover and former dog owner. I really understand wanting to keep your buddy safe.

    The last time I was hit with OC, I had effects for over 2 hrs. I literally had to hold an eye open on the drive home, despite shampoo, rinsing, etc.

    The Kimber does seem like a good product. I bought one for my last wife. It's a few dollars cheaper from Amazon.

    John
     
  7. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    Amen. On the coldest days, teens, I can barely handle hat, tights and PT shorts, and heavy shirt. That's only because it's a 1 hour run max.

    He's one of the top 3 reasons I run. It's the best time of the day being with him and nothing else distracting us. Heads down, mile after mile in silent conversation with each other. And this guy is "encounter prone." In the few years we've had him he's been skunked in the face, bit by a copperhead, in fights with deer, a ground hog, and an opossum and bit by another dog on the nose through a fence on a walk. And we do not live in the country either. He's just one of those dogs.


    Is it just the trigger mechanism or is the OC contained in there too? MEaning, would I have to buy the trigger and a bottle of OC?
     
  8. Zardaia

    Zardaia Member

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    It's an all in one pepper spray that is shapped somwhat like a gun. However i believe, may be wrong, u only get two shots. Each trigger pull fully discharges one of two pre charged canisters.
     
  9. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    Ah. Good to know. I will check it out. Thanks.
     
  10. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Yup, Zardaia has it right. I am not certain if you can buy the canisters separately, but the original unit does come pre-charged. 2 shots, and I believe they are actually discharged like shooting a firearm.

    J
     
  11. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    What kind of dog is he, Gossamer? Sorry if you already answered that and I missed it. He seems to have some incredible stamina.
     
  12. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    He's a mutt. He can out run me all day every day. We were told he's half pit half schnauzer but we also have been told he looks like he's got some wolf hound in him.

    All I know is he loves to run.

    The scrapper.
    F2CCA390-5B98-44C6-A5D4-0450E230044D-6057-000003EF92205D9B_zpsad9c9c25.jpg

    The scrapper after a 20-miler in November.
    4415B141-3BC8-484F-B846-E98FAF6866BA-6057-000003EF10DBEE78_zps8ec09355.jpg
     
  13. mrnic3guy1989

    mrnic3guy1989 Member

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    Their is a great lil knife called the back off get away (boga) I think it's called from cheaperthandirt.com. For less than $20.00 I think it can be worn as an armband or necklace very discrete.
     
  14. NG VI

    NG VI Member

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    You can get extra cartridges for the Kimber (Guardian Angel?) pepper blaster, it comes with one or two training cartridges I believe.

    They should make a reduced power cartridge to so owners can test a somewhat less severe version of their spray. It would be a way to take advantage of the versatility they offer over canned, disposable sprays.
     
  15. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    Check your laws though, in NY those kimber pepper blasters I believe aren't legal. NY, no surprise, has very strict pepper spray laws. The laws include how they look, or at least they did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2013
  16. heron

    heron Member

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    Yes to the spray, Gossamer, but you might also consider a very thin, flexible stick, perhaps a willow switch, about three feet long and a couple ounces. Won't break bones -- it might not even break skin -- but it'll sting like furies. Target the attacker's ears with it.
     
  17. zhyla

    zhyla Member

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    Wow, a lot of drama for a simple question. I only run a couple miles at a time but I just carry a folder clipped on my pocket. I don't generally view knives as a weapon but it's better than nothing.
     
  18. Zardaia

    Zardaia Member

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    I'd love to be able to run with the dog. Last time I went home I took the parent's dog out for a walk. Started a slow jog and I think he about died in 100yards. Spoiled over weight mutt that one is...
     
  19. Mikhail Weiss

    Mikhail Weiss Member

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    I clip a large Cold Steel Voyager into the waistband of my running shorts when I jog. I don't notice it's there.

    Seems any similarly lightweight knife with a clip, plus the pepper spray you presently carry, would make for a useful combination, and carrying both would still be lighter than a gun.
     
  20. sidheshooter

    sidheshooter Member

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    Not much to add that hasn't been said. Spyderco endura in the waistband works for me. It gets sticky, but it's there.
     
  21. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Emerson La Griffe in a clip sheath. The clip sheath is hard to find (most are custom made, though that's not to hard to do yourself with a metal clip and the factory sheath), and the knife is very difficult to find.

    But it's about three inches long with ridiculous retention in hand, and it probably weighs less than two ounces with the sheath. Turns you into a human velociraptor.

    A collapsible baton is way too heavy, any of the larger wood sticks or canes are too awkward.

    Kimber Pepperblaster is a decent choice, but you get two shots without the chance to readjust your aim like you can with a stream or foam pepper spray. Also a bit heavier, though it comes with a clip that you can tuck into your waistband.

    I always carry a J-frame-sized revolver with my driver's license and carry permit in a small fanny pack. But that's not for everyone, and I have never done a run more than eight miles with it.
     
  22. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    There are light weight elastic waist gun pouches. Or a clip draw rig on a pistol. A light weight .380 or 9x19 polymer pistol and ammo will come in at a pound.

    I'd say that if you can't carry an extra pound when you run then no offense but that's a problem.

    My biggest fear when running is having a stray dog chase me or attack me. Second biggest fear is either being hit by a car and badly injured/left defenseless, or abducted by people in a van. Or just encountering a desperate violent person. Need a gun for self defense.

    Running 15-20 miles. Yep, that's hard. But I've rucked 12 miles carrying 60 lbs worth of gear, so you won't have my sympathies carrying a pound of gear on a run.
     
  23. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey, we can compare. I carried a similar ruck...plus a 60mm mortar with M8 baseplate and attached bipod (about 35 more pounds total), plus M9 or M4. I weighed 155 at the time.

    Carrying ANY extra weight made running difficult. And I was the 2nd best runner in the squad (the best was a 128-lb jackrabbit). Your sympathies are obviously unneccessary, pretentious, and boorish.
     
  24. gossamer

    gossamer Member

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    Again, I thought this said "non-firearm weapons."

    You are free to run 26 miles or 2 and then comeback and tell me what you should do. But please don't presume to know better than me what's right for me.

    I've done my 20 mile days with a loaded 60lb pack too, Including the AT and RMT. Comparing it to running is apples and oranges. Ones packing and ones running.

    I don't need a gun for sd when i'm running, if you feel you do that's great for you.

    I didn't ask for sympathy. I asked for a "non-firearm weapon"
     
  25. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    sorry OP I agree with JShirley. If you want to conceal something wear a T-shirt, and some underwear.
     
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