Anyone else thinks that manual safeties go on the frame?

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whm1974

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Now I have a big beef with with quite a few modern auto loaders pistols, such as the safety on the slide instead the frame where it actually belongs. Safety should also be UP for Safe and DOWN for Fire.

How come this not standard on all pistols that have manual safeties?

Another issue I have ID with a few handguns, such the Star 9mm my stepfather used to have, is that the decocker only slide a thin piece of metal between the hammer and firing pin, you then pull the trigger to actually decock it. At the time(and still do) I thought this is really a dangerous way to do this.

Now I am not saying that the JMB 1911 design is the very best of all time...
 
Agreed on all points.
Beretta safety sucks, Taurus pt92 Safety is far better.
I dislike most decockers, but I especially dislike the ones where you pull the trigger. I do like SA/DA decockers though where you can let your trigger finger ride the trigger as the decocker falls which reduces the thump of the gun as the gun decocks which makes me feel more secure that it won’t shear something off and go ahead and fire the round off.

And I’m no fan of a 1911, though I don’t really dislike it, I do look at it realistically as a good design for the time, but it’s 110 years old and has been far surpassed in technology. In fact I don’t see JMB as the unbelievably talented man that he is touted to be... but he was a good tinkerer and he improved and perfected a bunch of stuff other people got functional.
 
A 1911 frame located thumb safety is ergonomically easier to operate. A safety lever mounted on the slide is from the engineer's point of view easier to design since it can easily be set up to block the firing pin. The 1911 safety as set up by browning and possibly other people at colt positively blocks the fall of the hammer, but not the firing pin. Some of the more modern 1911 have the firing pin safety designed into the trigger, but it is better for that to be designed into the external safety that is usually on the slide.
But now days I do not carry a 1911 and only use one for punching paper targets.
 
whm1974 said:
The very best kind. Is there a technical reason DA/SA Autos can't have a Decocker/Safety combo on the frame?
Click to expand...
Typically they physically block the hammer from hitting the firing pin, so it's a lot cheaper and easier to put it on the slide. I'm not familiar with how the sigs work, one day I hope to though
 
barnetmill said:
A 1911 frame located thumb safety is ergonomically easier to operate. A safety lever mounted on the slide is from the engineer's point of view easier to design since it can easily be set up to block the firing pin. The 1911 safety as set up by browning and possibly other people at colt positively blocks the fall of the hammer, but not the firing pin. Some of the more modern 1911 have the firing pin safety designed into the trigger, but it is better for that to be designed into the external safety that is usually on the slide.
But now days I do not carry a 1911 and only use one for punching paper targets.
Click to expand...
More ergonomically to operate is exactly the reason the frame is the proper place for a manual safety. The be other reasons however.
 
I don’t have manual safeties on my pistols so you can probably figure out that for me, where a safety is located on them is quite a moot point.

My answer is I don’t think they should go on the gun at all but I do agree with this:

Obturation said:
There is not one single feature standard on all guns, except the barrel. Variety is the spice of life...
Click to expand...

On shotguns the safety belongs in the tang position. Right?
 
Many, if not most of the guns with "backwards" slide mounted safeties are no longer in production. All of the Smith series are no longer in production. Ruger's P series are no longer made. Beretta is the only major player still making one and with military contracts going away I wonder how much longer they will be making them. The decocker guns like the Sig 226 series aren't so bad, but I'm not as crazy about the DA/SA pistols.

I can remember when the biggest two complaints about Glock were the heavy trigger pull and lack of a safety. Now an awful lot of people are convinced that no gun should have a safety even with a much lighter trigger than Glock. If you're going to have one the 1911 style is I think the best. Even the BHP safety is not as easy to use.

I'm perfectly comfortable with a Glock or similar striker fired gun with no safety as long as they are carried in a suitable holster. But there are times when a gun is not always in a holster and having the ability to have a safety isn't a bad thing. There are several options today for striker fired pistols with good safeties. Sig is my favorite, but the Smith M&P offers that option and all Rugers have them. I like having the option. With Sig and Smith you can buy either type, you can buy one with a safety and remove it. Or simply choose not to use it. But I like the option.

While I like Glock just fine, Sig's with manual safeties have largely replaced my Glocks. I shoot the Sig 320 and 365 a little better mostly due to the lighter trigger pull. And with the lighter trigger wouldn't feel as comfortable with no safety.
 
I still have a .40 Ruger P94. It was what I had when I first decided I wanted to carry. It is the safety/decocker version. I don't carry it due to the slide mounted safety. At one time I had decided I could carry it decocked/safety off. That was fine until one day after using a climber while deer hunting I realized the safety I thought was off was on. I came to the conclusion that if a pistol has a safety I should train to swipe it off every time. If the Ruger were my only pistol I am sure with enough time I could learn to do that. The thing is I also have other guns with no safety & an example of a 1911 with a frame mounted safety. So the Ruger doesn't get carried. I do pull it out & shoot it from time to time. If I ever buy another DA/SA it will be of the decocker only variety.
 
I think you mostly see safeties meant to be used as a safety on the SA guns, and some of the smaller hammerless striker-fired guns.

The slide-mounted decocker type safeties are more meant as a decocker than a safety, and other than maybe a couple of narrow uses, I doubt many actually use them as a safety. They are normally on DA guns where the DA trigger is the safety.

whm1974 said:
As long as the trigger is pullable by the owner.
Click to expand...
DAO triggers tend to be a tad lighter and nicer than your typical DA/SA guns.

If you cant pull the trigger on, or shoot a DA gun, then youve basically reduced the number of choices available to you, and by a good bit overall, as revolvers fall into that same group.

Unless you have some sort of physical issue, that keeps you from being able to work the trigger, I think most who say they cant shoot them, just never bothered to put in the time and effort (doesnt take much of either, by the way) learn to shoot them, and blaming the gun is just easier.
 
CNobbe said:
H&K USPs, HK45, FN FNX guns all have frame mounted safety/decock combo.
Click to expand...

I rented an HK .45 once, the USP if I remember correctly... and I really wanted to like it. I kept jamming the pistol because I shoot 'thumb over safety.' It kept decocking and jamming the action.

My brother has a PPK/s, that has the 'sweep up' slide-mounted safety... that's almost as bad as the HK safety. With the safety on, and the hammer down, you can still pull the trigger, but the hammer hits the safety bar... so you have to release the trigger, take it off safe, then go back to work. I just don't think that's the best recipe for a SD firearm.
 
Mike J said:
I still have a .40 Ruger P94. It was what I had when I first decided I wanted to carry. It is the safety/decocker version. I don't carry it due to the slide mounted safety. At one time I had decided I could carry it decocked/safety off. That was fine until one day after using a climber while deer hunting I realized the safety I thought was off was on. I came to the conclusion that if a pistol has a safety I should train to swipe it off every time. If the Ruger were my only pistol I am sure with enough time I could learn to do that. The thing is I also have other guns with no safety & an example of a 1911 with a frame mounted safety. So the Ruger doesn't get carried. I do pull it out & shoot it from time to time. If I ever buy another DA/SA it will be of the decocker only variety.
Click to expand...
CZ has a good solution for this on the RAMI. If the hammer is down it actually blocks the safety from being engaged. I don't know if this is a common design but I thought it was well thought out. Decocker would be better but such is life.
 
whm1974 said:
How come this not standard on all pistols that have manual safeties?
Click to expand...

How come all vehicles are not V8 rear wheel drive, two door, hard top, manual, with the steering wheel on the left and only one color?

Different strokes for different folks.

I am pretty sure some designs are created with no other intend than to be different, when the old designs decline in sales.
 
whm1974 said:
Now I have a big beef with with quite a few modern auto loaders pistols, such as the safety on the slide instead the frame where it actually belongs. Safety should also be UP for Safe and DOWN for Fire.

How come this not standard on all pistols that have manual safeties?

Another issue I have ID with a few handguns, such the Star 9mm my stepfather used to have, is that the decocker only slide a thin piece of metal between the hammer and firing pin, you then pull the trigger to actually decock it. At the time(and still do) I thought this is really a dangerous way to do this.

Now I am not saying that the JMB 1911 design is the very best of all time...
Click to expand...
Safeties that are kept in the 'safe' position until firing need to be wherever they can be accessed by the firing hand.

If the safety is a decocker and can be left off while holstered, such as a PPK, P-38, M39, etc, the slide is acceptable.
 
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