Anyone ever convicted for 922 (r)?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by PILMAN, Oct 3, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. PILMAN

    PILMAN Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Florida Panhandle
    Stupid question but I'm wondering if anyone has ever been convicted or imprisoned over violation of 922(r) or owning a weapon that is not 922(r) compliant? I don't intend to break the law nor would I encourage others to, just wondering if the waters have been tested?
     
  2. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    6,267
    Location:
    The Dark Side of the Moon
    from what I've read..... no

    but who wants to be the first one?
     
  3. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Okie City, OK.
    OK, for the notsobright, what is a 922(r)?
     
  4. Picard

    Picard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    974
    Location:
    Illinois
    Something along the lines of, if a foreign made firearm is imported into the U.S., and it has a detachable magazine, then it can only have 10 or less foreign parts on it. I'm sure that someone will find the official text of the law to help out even further.
     
  5. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Okie City, OK.
    Does this law have any real validity ? Sounds bogus to me..........
     
  6. LaEscopeta

    LaEscopeta Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    983
    Location:
    Los Estados Unidos
    This is what I could find quickly, although it applies to AK pattern firearms in particular:

    http://www.dinzagarms.com/922r/922r.html

    Some links on the above will lead you to more general info.

    As to the original post, someone here on THR stated an opinion if the ATF found a firearm thay thought was in violation of 922(r) the would likely confiscate it as contraband, leaving the owner with no recourse to get it back. If they tried to prosecute someone it may lead to a court decision not to ATF liking, concerning the meaning of the terms "sporting" or "readily adaptable." Plus I don't think the current 922 laws list a particular penalty for have a firearm in violation. If they just take it and don’t charge the owner, they get a win for themselves in their eyes without the expense of a trail.
     
  7. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    18,301
    Location:
    Ft. Worth
    What do you mean, bogus. It's a real law. If you mean does it serve any purpose the answer is of course not.

    What gun law does?
     
  8. MGshaggy

    MGshaggy Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    515
    Here's the text of 18 USC 922(r)

    It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
    (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
    (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General. ​

    The parts count is contained in the corresponding section of the CFR.

    Possible, but highly unlikely due to the deference afforded administrative agencies in their area of expertise.

    I believe its five years (see 924)
     
  9. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Okie City, OK.
    That's what I meant TR. From the information that LaEscopeta posted there might be some room to challenge it in court. Does "Readily adaptable" mean the ease of returning it to its original full auto capacity?

    Gun Control,
    It's not about guns, it's about control.
     
  10. Carlos Cabeza

    Carlos Cabeza Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,522
    Location:
    Okie City, OK.
    Thanks McShaggy. It's a "box of gun parts" gun law.
     
  11. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    6,513
    Location:
    Winter Haven, FL
    To my knowledge, there have been no arrests/convictions ....

    Here's the law:

    Note that it is the ACT of assembling a firearm that is illegal, not possession of a firearm that has already been assembled.

    Also note that ATF says it is not illegal to be in possession of the parts that can be assembled into a firearm in violation of 922(r). This is the opposite of all other positions taken by ATF in which they claim mere possession of the parts for a machinegun, SBR/SBS, suppressor, etc. is illegal, even when not assembled.

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, do not play one on TV and did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so remember internet legal advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. :)


    Note that James O Bardwell, NFA and gun law expert is also of this opinion as he describes HERE.
     
  12. dutch pirate

    dutch pirate Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2008
    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Texas
    wrong
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2008
  13. wally

    wally Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,393
    Location:
    Houston, Tx
    Who wanted to be the first not to ride at the back of the bus?

    --wally.
     
  14. Hk91-762mm

    Hk91-762mm Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    western NY
    My next door neighbor is a NYstate trooper, Now Investagator Likes AWs and I let him take my HK91 to Swat practice,,
    I asked him what he knew about NON compliant AWs==He told me How in hell Do I tell if any firearm has matching parts,,
    I always wondered who actually looked for compliant parts!???
     
  15. MIL-DOT

    MIL-DOT member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,110
    Location:
    Georgia,C.S.A.
    There was a thread several months ago,here IIRC, where a member said he had a friend in the ATF whom he asked about 922r. The ATF friend reportedly had absolutely no knowledge of 922r, didn't know what the hell he was talking about,and said they had more important things to worry about. I've also read that there have been no known 922r prosecutions.
    Again, from what I've read, this is one of those obscure laws they dredge up when they want to pad a case against someone.
     
  16. JustAnotherPlinker

    JustAnotherPlinker Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    Kansas
    yup, but it sure built an industry fast eh?
     
  17. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,962
    It's one thing trying to prosecute some backyard bubba for assembling a FAL with one too many foreign parts. It's another thing entirely if a company is bringing in rifles that are blatantly banned, replacing the receiver, and then turning around and selling them unmodified. Sooner or later someone would catch on that, and someone at ATF would jump at the opportunity to make a nice case for themselves.
     
  18. cslinger

    cslinger Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    5,171
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    I spoke to some local ATF agents during the AWB years and discussed AWB items, magazines and 922r. This grew out of me having some "gray market" unmarked magazines for a Walther P99 that I simply didn't know if they were legal or not and I was trying to stay on the right side of the law. Now these were local southern region agents so my guess is the your local Boston agents may be different but this is what they told me.

    "Do you plan on knocking over a 7-11 or Mapco with those magazines? If not then we really don't give a ****." We got to talking about the AWB and 922r and they basically said they only use those to add charges to folks who have actually committed crimes. They were absolutely laissez fair about firearms, the AWB, magazines and 922r unless you were committing a "real crime". They did however take illegal full auto and explosives very seriously.

    Just food for thought. Now I would NEVER recommend breaking any law and I haven't done so myself in any way. I am just saying that my guess is 922r is used when going after importers/dealers or for adding charges to somebody already in violation of crimes the BATFE takes more seriously.

    Of course any time I think about this crap I think about how much actual good would be done by taking all the money we dump into stupid laws like 922r, NICS the BATFE etc. and spent it on beat cops who were visible, walked a beat and actually cared. One think I have to begrudingly give to Clinton, for all the bad he did and all the stupid firearms stuff he did, he did put a lot of beat cops on the street. Blind squirrel....nut and all.

    Chris
     
  19. mp510

    mp510 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    Messages:
    3,045
    Location:
    PRKt
    The entire point of the law was to protect the American arms industry from lower priced foreign comeptition.
     
  20. NavyLCDR

    NavyLCDR member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    7,691
    Location:
    Stanwood, WA
    Here's the CFR that goes with 922(r):
    TITLE 27--ALCOHOL, TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND FIREARMS

    CHAPTER I--BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS, DEPARTMENT OF THE
    TREASURY

    PART 178--COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION--Table of Contents

    Subpart C--Administrative and Miscellaneous Provisions

    Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

    (a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
    using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
    section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
    section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
    adaptable to sporting purposes.
    (b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
    (1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution
    by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or
    agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political
    subdivision thereof; or
    (2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of
    testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the
    provisions of Sec. 178.151; or
    (3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into
    or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the
    replacement of any part of such firearm.
    (c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
    (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
    (2) Barrels
    (3) Barrel extensions
    (4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
    (5) Muzzle attachments
    (6) Bolts
    (7) Bolt carriers
    (8) Operating rods
    (9) Gas pistons
    (10) Trigger housings
    (11) Triggers
    (12) Hammers
    (13) Sears
    (14) Disconnectors
    (15) Buttstocks
    (16) Pistol grips
    (17) Forearms, handguards
    (18) Magazine bodies
    (19) Followers
    (20) Floorplates
     
  21. novaDAK

    novaDAK Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    After Heller I'm still waiting for someone to challange that 'sporting purposes' clause of the GCA. It was affirmed that we have the individual right to own firearms for all legal purposes including self defense.
     
  22. MAKster

    MAKster Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    2,604
    922r has nothing to do with protecting U.S. manufacturers. The rifles that this law is aimed at - AKs, FALs, etc - were not being manufactured in the U.S. in 1968. This has nothing to do with protecting Remington.
     
  23. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    565
    Location:
    Houston, By God Texas
    Just refuse to snitch on a bunch of white separatists and see how many BATFE boys count the parts in your rifle.
     
  24. MinnMooney

    MinnMooney Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,608
    Location:
    east-central Minnesota
    I just read several versions of other peoples' interpratations of 922(R) and what a croak! We have way too many idiotic laws on the books for the sole purpose of making it more & more difficult to buy weapons.
     
  25. jrfoxx

    jrfoxx Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,167
    Location:
    Evanston,WY
    Heres an apellate case of a 922(r) charge. No idea of the outcomes or full details, or the info on the original case.

    United States Court of Appeals,
    Seventh Circuit.
    TRADER VIC'S LTD, an Indiana Corporation[FN1] and Victor L. Reid, Sr. Plaintiffs-Appellants,
    v.
    Paul H. O'NEILL, Secretary of Department of Treasury. Defendant-Appellee.

    (charge) 4. Attaching bayonets to SKS rifles. This violates 18 U.S.C. § 922(r).


    I gather there are other cases out there, but that it has always been used as a "add on" charge to go with a bunch of other charges, as opposed to someone getting charged with 922(r) alone and nothing else. Doesnt meant they cant or wont do it to someone if they feel like though, so its best to just obey the law, regardless of how stupid it is, or how unlikely the odds of getting charged for it, especially if you arent doing anything else wrong.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice