I was wondering if someone here had ever sent a determination request to the BATF offices in W. Va. There were a few recent "limited edition" and commemorative models I thought would be good to add to it. Curious if anyone had any experience.
Anyone ever get (or attempt) a C&R determination from the BATF?
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Erik M
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there is a downloadable list of firearms that have been determined to be C&R eligible on the batfe website. I printed off a copy, seems like it might be out of date a couple years.
sonick808
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in addition to the list, anything 50+ years in age from current date is presumed to be covered by C&R. Some dealers go by list only, but the statute indicates anything 50 years or older is C&R eligible as long as it's not superseded by NFA status, etc.
essayons21
Member
Is there a list of NFA items that are exempt because of their C&R status? I seem to remember a SBR for sale on gunbroker that didn't require any NFA paperwork because it had a specific C&R determination. It was a 60+ year old 9mm sub-gun that was very limited production and personally owned by some famous firearms designer.
I don't know that particular weapon, the BATF FAQ's state any C&R NFA weapon has to also go through NFA rules as well as C&R. So I would doubt the case of that.
I'm familiar with the list and the updates they publish annually (still waiting for the December 2009 update to come on-line). As of 12/2008, the particular limited edition guns I had in mind were not on the list, and was thinking of writing my own determination letter to see if they would add them. I believe there is a cumulative list as of mid-2007, then there are annual (December) updates to the list - so far 2007 and 2008.
rickomatic
Member
You might want to recheck those rules. If I remember correctly from my C&R days all NFA rules still apply.
Hoxviii
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I thought *certain* c&r items like Lugers and broomhandles w/buttstock were deemed non-NFA and non taxable.
earlthegoat2
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I know that some of the old Winchester leverguns with 12 and 14 inch barrels need a special endorsement for transfer purposes. I think it is free though.
dogtown tom
Member
Correct. See page 34 below.
Here is the language from the C&R list http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf
The C&R list shows many short barrelled Winchesters as "exempt from NFA". All are specifically identified by serial number (beginning on page 39 of the C&R list. Any short barrelled Winchester not on that list ) or subsequent updates) is not exempt and tax must be paid.
Some short barrelled Winchesters are removed from the NFA and reclassified as Antiques. These are not subject to GCA regulation.
searcher451
Member
One of the members of the P.38 Forum recently received an OK from the BATF regarding a C&R request he made to include Norwegian military post-war P38s on the list.
http://forums.p38forum.com/index.htm
The member, Atarian, wrote on that forum:
"It can be done, it just takes patience and a thorough and complete response to every point in the C&R manual, for example the 'reasons' for classifying a firearm as C&R are rarity, value, and history. Write a complete parapgragh on each one, explaining in detail why the criteria is met. They also want to you to explain why the weapons is unlikely to be used in a crime - this should be addressed in a full paragraph as well. It also helps, as I found, to include MANY detailed photos and drawings, and a history of the item. In my case they required an appraisal to show that "the value of like firearms... is substantially less" - i.e. the Norwegian P38 is worth much more than a standard $300 post-war surplus pistol.
"It was a long process that involved a lot of waiting, but the agent that contacted me several times was very helpful and courteous. I believe if you have all your ducks in a row, it can be achieved."
You can find his post in the post-war P.38 section under the heading, ATF C&R request approved ...
http://forums.p38forum.com/index.htm
The member, Atarian, wrote on that forum:
"It can be done, it just takes patience and a thorough and complete response to every point in the C&R manual, for example the 'reasons' for classifying a firearm as C&R are rarity, value, and history. Write a complete parapgragh on each one, explaining in detail why the criteria is met. They also want to you to explain why the weapons is unlikely to be used in a crime - this should be addressed in a full paragraph as well. It also helps, as I found, to include MANY detailed photos and drawings, and a history of the item. In my case they required an appraisal to show that "the value of like firearms... is substantially less" - i.e. the Norwegian P38 is worth much more than a standard $300 post-war surplus pistol.
"It was a long process that involved a lot of waiting, but the agent that contacted me several times was very helpful and courteous. I believe if you have all your ducks in a row, it can be achieved."
You can find his post in the post-war P.38 section under the heading, ATF C&R request approved ...
essayons21
Member
The gun I am thinking of was I believe a Smith and Wesson, 9mm sub-machine gun, submitted to the British to compete for the contract that eventually went to the Sten gun. Anyone know what model this was?
Mike OTDP
Member
S&W Light Rifle. It's C&R already, and is listed as exempt from NFA. Page 38 of http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf
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