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Anyone from Oregon that could help me find a muzzleloader to hunt with?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by mickeydim468, Jan 3, 2011.

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  1. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    Oregon has some whacky rules about their muzzleloader hunting for deer/elk. Not all of the modern muzzleloaders are legal here. Is there anyone from here that can tell me which modern muzzleloaders are legal here. I am under the impression that the ones that use 209 shotgun primers are illegal. Is this true?

    Mike!
     
  2. TwoWalks

    TwoWalks Member

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    Muzzleloader

    * Scopes (permanent and detachable), and sights that use batteries, artificial light or energy are not allowed during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only, except for visually impaired hunters who have a visual acuity of ≤ 20/200 with lenses or visual field of ≤ 20 degrees (a permit is required; please see page 86). Open and peep sights made from alloys, plastic, or other materials that do not have the properties described above are legal sights. Fiber optics and fluorescent paint incorporated into or on open or iron sights are legal.

    * It is illegal to hunt with on-lead bullets, jacketed bullets, sabots, and bullets with plastic or synthetic bases during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only. Conical lead or lead alloy bullets with a length that does not exceed twice the diameter and lead or lead alloy round balls used with cloth, paper, or felt patches are allowed.

    * It is illegal to hunt with centerfire primers as an ignition source during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.

    * It is illegal to hunt with pelletized powders or propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only. Granular (loose) black powder and black powder substitutes are the only legal propellants during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.

    * No other firearm may be used for hunting during a muzzleloader-only season (See definition page 10 or regulations book).

    * Muzzleloading firearms with revolving actions are prohibited during muzzleloader-only seasons and 600 series hunts where there is a weapon restriction of shotgun/muzzleloader only or archery/muzzleloader only.

    Deer .40 caliber or larger
    Elk .50 caliber or larger

    Muzzleloader must have open or peep sights and open ignition.

    The rules in Oregon (page 82 of 2009 Synopsis) defines legal muzzleloaders that can be used during muzzleloader and series 600 hunts.

    Inline muzzleloaders or any muzzleloader except a Matchlock can be used as long as it has open ignition.

    Many other restrictions are placed on muzzleloaders that are to be used during muzzleloader season. No scopes, or optical sights, including fiber optic sights, can be used. No jacketed bullets, sabots, bullets who's length is more than twice the diameter of said bullet, no pellets, or center fire primers are legal. Loose powder is the only propellant that can be used.

    These items can be used during other hunts that do not specify muzzlloader only. A handgun can not be carried during a muzzleloader hunt either.
     
  3. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    Thanks TwoWalks!

    Wow, that's a mouthful, but unfortunately, I sort of got that from the hunter reg book. You mentioned however that fiber optic sights are not legal, and I thought they were legal. Which part tells you that they are not legal? I thought it was legal based on the last line of your first paragraph. but then in the second to the last paragraph in the second sentence you say that you can't use fiber optic sights. Can you clear this up for me?

    I guess I need to be more clear about what I am asking for.

    What makes and models of muzzle loading rifles are legal in Oregon? The only one I have found so far in my research that shoots using percussion caps, is an old Kentucky style rifle that I have to build myself, made by Traditions, and a CVA Elkhorn Pro, which works using #11 caps, musket, or 209 primers.

    Mike!
     
  4. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    The OR muzzle loading regs are written for the more traditional muzzle loaders. Something like a TC Hawken or Lyman Plains rifle well do the job.
     
  5. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    That's better Madcratebuilder,

    Specific models and manufacturers. I want to have a choice, but there are so many hundreds of rifle models out there to look at that do not qualify for Oregon, I need the list narrowed by you wonderful folks who are in the know about muzzle loading rifles. This is the first one I have ever shopped for, so I came here where I knew you guys could help me.

    Thanks, and keep em coming!

    Mike!
     
  6. TwoWalks

    TwoWalks Member

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    Many other restrictions are placed on muzzleloaders that are to be used during muzzleloader season. No scopes, or optical sights, including fiber optic sights, can be used. No jacketed bullets, sabots, bullets who's length is more than twice the diameter of said bullet, no pellets, or center fire primers are legal. Loose powder is the only propellant that can be used.

    The following applies if you use a muzzleloader during Non Muzzleloading seasons.
    These items can be used during other hunts that do not specify muzzlloader only. A handgun can not be carried during a muzzleloader hunt either.
     
  7. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Why do you want to stick with a modern design? It seems to me that's precisely what Oregon's rules are trying to prevent. You can save yourself the headache by shooting PRB out of a traditional muzzleloader.

    If you're near Springfield the folks at the Gun Works are really nice and helpful. I was down there in 2009 and they have a great selection of traditional muzzleloaders.

    http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm
     
  8. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  9. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    Cosmoline wrote:
    What is PRB? I am new to this and do not understand.

    Thanks,

    Mike!
     
  10. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    PRB means "patched round ball".
    Some black powder gun barrels are designed to shoot patched round balls while other barrels are designed to shoot conical bullets or sabots.
    And some medium twist barrels can shoot both.

    A traditional muzzle loader is one that most commonly has a sidelock, which is the old fashion style percussion lock. Or also a flintlock. Many of those traditional guns are used to shoot PRB's, but not all of them since many have medium twist barrels.
    The TC Northwest Explorer edition mentioned above has a medium 1 in 48" twist barrel for shooting both PRB's and conical bullets.
    Because it has an inline design, it's considered to have more reliable ignition.
    And because it has a removable breechplug, it's easier to thoroughly clean.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  11. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    is 1:28" twist a good one? If not, what would be better?

    Mike!
     
  12. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    1 in 28" is a fast twist for shooting conical bullets. It will usually shoot conical bullets with more accuracy and at longer range than a slower twist barrel.
    But it probably won't shoot PRB's very well with heavy hunting loads.
    Conical bullets are very lethal for hunting large game.

    It's as much about what size game that you intend to shoot and at what distance than it is about which rifle would be better than another.
    What kind of projectiles do you want to be able to fire with the rifle?
    What kind of distances/terrain will you be hunting/shooting?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2011
  13. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    I intend to hunt deer/elk in thick woodsy terrain plus some more open shots to 150 yds. Conical bullets are OK as long as they are not longer than twice the diameter and are not jacketed.

    Has anyone heard of an Austin & Halleck 420 50 cal ML? If so, what do you think of those. They also have the ignition systems. so they would be legal too.

    As for traditional, I really don't want to stick with traditional. I like a synthetic stock for weather resistance etc...

    Mike!
     
  14. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    I decided to bid on an Austin & Halleck ML rifle today and I won! It has all three ignition systems. The only thing I may have to modify, if you want to call it that, is the fiber optic sights. The jury is out as to whether I need to do that though. I will ask the local Sheriff and a game officer to see what is up for sure.

    Thanks for all the help guys.

    I am sure I will have more questions after I get the rifle. Until then, if you would like to see the rifle I bought, you can go here: Gunbroker Auction Results

    Mike!
     
  15. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    So you can see the cap on that even when the bolt is closed? Interesting design.
     
  16. fthomas

    fthomas Member

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    Mickey, I don't hunt in Orgeon, but own a Lyman Great Plains percussion in 54 cal, which from what I read would do for deer and elk in Oregon. It is an awesome rifle and extremely accurate. They are easily obtained new online and can be just as easily found used, but I caution you on buying a used Black Powder weapon if you do not know what you are looking at i.e. bore condition, lock condition, etc.

    If I were you I would opt for a Lyman Great Plains or one of their other models. The quality is good out of the box. I believe you will be very pleased. As a side note the Great Plains does not replicate any particular rifle of a particular style or date, but is close enough in my opinion.

    I also own a custom flintlock, but Lyman also makes the Great Plains in a flintlock. So you still have some choices to make.

    There are other quality manufacturers out there as well. I just happen to be a big fan of Lyman. Great quality and excellent customer service and support.
     
  17. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    That is the way I understand it. You can see the cap, similarly to other in line bolt operated models with open ignition. I believe Traditions, T/C and CVA all have similar designs targeting the Northwest hunter, due to our strict ML regulations.

    Mike!
     
  18. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    Thanks fthomas, but I just won a bid on an unfired rifle that was made by Austin & Halleck in 2006. You can see the rifle I got at the link in the post above. I think I will be very pleased with the new rifle, but if I am not, you all will be the first to know!

    Mike!
     
  19. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    mickeydim468, you should drive over to Springfield and check out this shop.

    http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm

    Largest selection of black powder I have ever seen, hundreds and hundreds of rifles from factory to custom, new and old. Prices run from $200 to $10,000+.

    I'm making the trip down from pdx Friday, be their at noon. Bring a sack of cash and all your visa cards.
     
  20. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    I wish I could go, but I have to work. I live in southwest OR, so it would be an all day trip for me. We don't have much selection around here, that's why I bought on the internet.

    Thanks for the offer though. That would have been cool. Are they open on Saturday or Sunday? I wouldn't mind checking them out in the near future.

    Mike!
     
  21. RaiderANV

    RaiderANV Member

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    When Oregon said Primitive season they meant it.
    Penn. is even tougher as you can only use a flintlock.
     
  22. TwoWalks

    TwoWalks Member

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    You will love the rifle, but not during Oregons Primitive season. First it does not have an open ignition system as required. The optic sights are also illegal to use during primitive season. You could use the rifle during regular deer and elk season.
     
  23. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    Then I will just have to build myself a Hawkins rifle then. No biggie!

    I will be quite happy with what I chose and I will hunt with it too.

    Thanks for the info!

    Mike!
     
  24. mickeydim468

    mickeydim468 Member

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    The following is in response to Two Walks about the legality of the shooting platform I have chosen.

    This is an excerpt from the Chuck Hawks website at this URL: Recomended Muzzleloader rifles by Randy Wakeman Scroll about 1/3 way down and you will find this verbatim.
    Just sayin!

    Mike!
     
  25. david58

    david58 Member

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    I still don't get it....

    I still don't understand hunting with a muzzleloader that "feels just like a centerfire." I use a traditional muzzleloader even in nonrestricted seasons - I just love shooting with the traditional guns, and with average shots being under 100 yards, a .54 in percussion is going to be sufficient for any Oregon game.

    A well-tuned flinter will not be noticeably slower in ignition than a percussion. I dont think you could tell the ignition speed difference between a good traditional percussion lock and an inline.

    And a patched, round ball is very effective on game!

    Is the difference accepting the challenge and handicap of using the traditional gun versus simply trying to have another season to hunt?

    Again, I just don't get it - just my mindset, I don't make the rules, but the beauty of a fine traditional rifle puts to shame any inline.
     
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