Long rambling thoughts on Lasers
always laugh at the reasons folks poo-poo lasers. I'll give you input based on my experience actually USING them, as opposed to just dismissing them (and condemning anyone considering them) for all the reasons someone told me about.
I have had at one time or another 8 different handguns with the CTC laser grips. Currently my carry weapons (SW M&P9c and M&P340) and my wife’s (Ruger SP101) both wear them. My house gun carries a rail mounted light/laser combo (Streamlight TLR-2). The CTC grips hold their zero extremely well. Once set I have never had to make any adjustments, even though I remove them to clean my guns replace them afterwards. My experience is they are very durable and CTC has an outstanding reputation for customer service. Of the 8 sets I've owned, I had one problem that I can blame on them, and one problem that was my fault.
Here are the ones I've owned, the time, and the round counts with the laser grips installed. The P229, P226, P239 and Glock 33 have all been sold. Some with the laser, some I sold the lasers separate. For the lasers I sold, I generally got about 80%+ of what I paid for them. They hold their value well.
P229- My first set of CTC grips. I owned them for approximately 1 1/2 years, approx 2000 rounds fired with them- no problems, except the one I caused. I bought this gun used at a pawn shop and it had the laser grips on it. In fact the lasers are what interested me and made the gun such a bargain. After firing it the first time, I was cleaning it and stuffed a Q-tip in the aperture. I managed to pop the lens out which resulted in a crescent shaped beam that had about a 2-3" length when hitting an object 15' away. I was pretty pissed at myself and called CTC to see what repair would cost. I clearly explained to them what happened and that I bought these used and I had no idea of their history. CTC told me to send them down and they would be repaired at no charge. I sent them off and one week to the day later, I had a package from CTC. They did not repair them, they sent me a replacement set, additionally they included a user manual (which I did not have), adjustment tools, and cleaning swabs. All it cost me was the postage to send them in to CTC. CTC paid the postage to send me the replacement. My experience with this set made me a believer in both lasers and CTC.
Guns I no longer own:
P229- Owned for about 6 months, 500 rounds. These were my first and are what sold me on them.
P226- Owned for just under 2 years, 1200 rounds, no problems.
P239- Owned just under 1 year, 700 rounds, no problems.
Glock 33- Daily carry gun for over 2 years, 3500 rounds, 1 problem. This gun is .357Sig cal, a pretty violent round in such a small package. After about 18 months and 2000+ rounds, I noticed that the laser would go "off" as the gun fired, then come back on as I recovered from the recoil. As I tried to figure out what was going on I examined the grips and found that the switch mounting had failed. With the recoil, it moved and the contacts opened. Yes, a failure. I would like to note though, that they still worked, they just flicked off during recoil. I sent them off to CTC and they were repaired and returned in less than 10 days.
Guns currently owned:
Ruger SP101- Wife’s carry gun for 2+ years, 500+ rounds, no problems.
SW M&P9c- New carry gun to replace the Glock. 750 rounds, no problems. I am quickly becoming a fan of the M&P's, as ammo prices climb I decided to move back to 9mm instead of the pricey .357sig. After putting 700 rounds through my 9c without a single failure, It took over the carry duty from my Glock. Glock was sold with the laser attached and I picked up a set for the M&P as quick as I could. First trip to the range was 250 trouble free rounds.
Sig P229ST – 1 month, 150 rounds. No problems.
SW M&P340CT – Newest addition. Only had it for a couple weeks, 100 rounds so far. Works just as expected and has become a constant companion.
Add that all up and I have over 8 years and over 7000 rounds experience with them and just a single failure, which I note again, did not render them unusable. That is a pretty good track record as far as I am concerned. I replace the batteries twice a year (oh, and with the "free batteries for life" program I have never had to buy batteries for them).
Who am I ? I am a 9 year Marine Corps veteran with 30 years of shooting experience. I’ve helds a WA. State Concealed Pistol License for 17 years. I am an NRA for over 15 years (Endowment Life). I have attended defensive pistol training (Bruce Gray), and done a little IDPA. That said, I feel I am qualified to speak on the matter both as a shooter and someone with laser experience.
Do they replace iron sights? No, you need to be skilled in the basics first. Are they "right" for every situation? No, but if they aren't right, they also don't hinder regular sights or point shooting if you so desire. Can they be a benefit in some situations? SURE. Why not have one more tool in the box? I'll take every advantage I can get.
"Point shooting" can be very useful under the right circumstances and if you have had the ability to train and become proficient. That said, most people aren't able to practice to the point where they will become proficient. Few ranges allow drawing from a holster, let alone shooting from the hip. Even if you do become proficient, it will be useless to you in certain circumstances.
For the "average" person, your best chance of survival is to present a poor target to the threat while getting off some effective shots. In a street combat situation, you should be moving and going for cover/concealment. Standing in one place is the surest way to become a statistic. This ain't the old west where you face off and draw in the street. "Effective" doesn't necessarily mean good sight alignment/sight picture, it means you have a high level of confidence they are going to go where they need to. You might find yourself shooting from the hip, shooting from around an object, shooting while running, turning around and shooting over your shoulder. Regardless, chances are however you do it, you will be looking at the threat. As you look at the threat, seeing that red dot on his chest lets you know that you are on target.
In a combat situation you are going to focus on the threat. It is a physiological response. Contrary to another post, you don't look for the dot and then move it to the target. While you are focused on the target, with the tunnel vision that occurs, you naturally point your weapon to where you are looking. It is an almost automatic eye-hand coordination (which happens to also be the basis for point-shooting). As your weapon comes to bear, you will clearly see that dot when it is on target. It is a very positive feedback and provides the mental "green light" for trigger squeeze.
Lasers can also be extremely beneficial for dry fire and trigger control practice. The laser isn't dancing around on it's own, that is your twitchy hand and jerky trigger pull. You just get to see for a change how much your gun moves as you work the trigger. I love when someone complains about how much the dot jerks around, then when I hold the gun it moves less than my Aunt Ethel when Oprah is on.
Real world police gunfight data shows a huge improvement in the hit ratio of officers equipped with them. I haven't seen ANY data where they were determined to be a detriment or get someone "killed".
There is just something about technology that sets off grumpy old farts. In my motorcycle group they bitch about how they don't need a GPS and they are crap because maps still work, and how they'll break and then you're screwed. In the gun world they bitch about Lasers being crap and they aren't needed for any number of reasons. "They will fail" ****, any piece of machinery can fail. With that logic the old coots shouldn't be using maps OR guns, they should be using celestial navigation and throwing rocks.
My experience has been that folks who spout absolutes and wax nostalgic on the good ole days tend to be limited in their abilities to grow, evolve, learn, and understand new things. Funny how some of those most verbal against them have never even used them. My personal experience has been that 6 out of 8 "anti's" changed their mind once they actually used one, and the two that don't were just too stubborn to admit they were wrong.
Are they magic? No, do they have a use and purpose? Hell yes.
Admittedly I do not have actual combat experience. While we wait for my trial by fire, let see what the accredited experts have to say...
"If I were a police officer today, I wouldn't consider going on patrol or walking a beat without a Crimson Trace equipped firearm."
Jim Cirillo: LE Trainer, Author, Retired NYPD and US Customs, 17-0 Record Against Armed Felons
"I consider my Lasergrips a key advantage that I would not go into harm's way without."
Ernest Langdon: President, Langdon Tactical Technologies, IDPA Champion and USMC Sniper Instructor
"For low light and dark, Lasergrips are a tool that I don't want to be without. By the time I had 300-400 rounds down range, I got to the point where I could trust that wherever the dot was, the bullet would go."
Mike Dalton: IDPA Steel Challenge Champion, Police Officer and Director of International Shootists Institute
"In the past, I had a total disregard for lasers. But, after testing and evaluating them, I now have Crimson Trace Lasergrips on my personal guns. When searching or clearing a room, the sidearm often needs to be held in a 'retention' firing position. With Lasergrips, I can use the flashlight, protect my handgun and sight my pistol at the same time. There is no need to lead with the handgun as many popular flashlight firing techniques require."
Ken Hackathorn: International Small Arms Instructor and Consultant
"I know what the front sight looks like, but in a CQB environment you never see your front sight. Why not superimpose a laser on your threat. I'm 50% faster coming out on target and can outrun my tritium sights by at least 20% in speed and accuracy with Lasergrips."
Todd Jarrett: World Champion Shooter, International Military / LE Trainer
"In my opinion, the S & W J-Frame revolver equipped with this unit has to be considered as the ultimate in a police backup gun or civilian type weapon carried for defensive purposes."
Colonel Rex Applegate
"I have Lasergrips installed on all of my duty/defensive sidearms and consider them to be an essential accessory. Lasergrips can save lives and reduce liability exposure."
Eugene Nielsen: Tactical Consultant, Author, former Police Officer, Contributing Staff S.W.A.T. Magazine Editor
"I carry a Lasergripped Model 442 as a backup gun....."
Massad Ayoob: World Renowned Firearms Instructor / Self Defense Expert
Anyone with even limited exposure to shooting will recognize the names above, and all are held in high regard by the shooting/combat/competition/training communities.
