Anyone know of a .380 sa/da that isn't blowback?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Kaybee, Nov 30, 2017.

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  1. Charlie Horse

    Charlie Horse Member

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    Looking around the net, I found the Chiappa MC14. It is a double action available in .380 and 9mm, looks bigger than a pocket pistol, and if its the same in both calibers, would be a locked breach design. The only downside is the fact that Chiappa seems to have a spotty reputation for quality.
     
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  2. stogiegila

    stogiegila Member

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    As Huntsman indicated, I would strongly recommend getting her hands on a Sig P250SC. Granted it is 9mm (as I don't think you will find a .380 now) but the subcompact size is just right and the weight really absorbs the 9mm recoil. Plus it is hammer fired and the DAO trigger is extremely easy to use at only 6lbs.


    15.3 Subcompact Specifications


    Caliber 380 Auto 9mm .40 S&W .357 SIG .45ACP

    Length, overall
    6.67” 6.67” 6.67” 6.67” 6.67”

    Height, overall 4.67” 4.67” 4.67” 4.67” 4.67”

    Width, overall 1.06” 1.06” 1.06” 1.06” 1.06”

    Barrel length 3.55” 3.55” 3.55” 3.55” 3.55”

    Rifling twist 1 in 10” 1 in 10” 1 in 15” 1 in 16” 1 in 16”

    Rifling grooves 6 6 6 6 6

    Sight radius 5.45” 5.45” 5.45” 5.45” 5.45”

    Weight incl. mag 18.4 oz 24.9 oz 24.9 oz 25.1 oz 24.8 oz

    Mag wt, empty 2.38 oz 2.38 oz 2.35 oz 2.35 oz 2.40 oz

    Trigger pull 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs

    Mag capacity 12 rds 12 rds 10 rds 10 rds 6 rds
     
  3. aarondhgraham

    aarondhgraham Member

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    Thanks Charlie Horse,,,
    That video shows the technique very well.

    My left hand is flatter on the top of the slide than hers was,,,
    But all in all it's still a good demonstration of the racking technique.

    Aarond

    .
     
  4. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    Thoughts on a couple of guns previously mentioned: Ruger LC380 and SIG P250 in .380.

    Manipulating the slide is ridiculously easy on either gun. I can point the barrel downward, hold the slide between the thumb and forefinger of one hand and rack the slide by pushing down on the backstrap with the forefinger of the other hand. You don't get much easier than racking a slide with one finger.

    Both guns are locked breech designs, which greatly reduce perceived recoil compared to blowback designs.

    Both guns have DAO triggers, but they are not grandpa's 12+ pound DAO triggers. Both guns have trigger weights of about 6.5 pounds, which is the original trigger weight of the wildly popular striker-fired S&W Shield.

    While both guns have light DAO triggers, they both have long trigger strokes. Love it or hate it, the long trigger stroke is a safety feature that eliminates the need for a decocker.

    The LC380 has a manual safety and is a single stack design that holds 7 rounds.

    The P250 is a modular double stack design; depending on which grip module/magazine is used, it holds 12 or 15 rounds.

    The photo below compares the Ruger LC380, S&W Shield, and SIG P250 sub-compact.

    CC_trio.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  5. zaitcev

    zaitcev Member

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    You would hope so, but Girsan MC14 (later Chiappa) started as a clone of Beretta 84. So, it's a blowback.
     
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  6. zaitcev

    zaitcev Member

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    I've read through the thread and on consideration she must consider stepping up to 9mm. Sorry.

    The chain of reasoning is: all DA/SA guns she'll find are going to be blowback guns that will have a noticeable recoil. This, BTW, includes Cheetah, depending how you grasp it and other factors. And an ergonomic 9mm gun will have a recoil on par with that.
     
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  7. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    Anybody have any experience with the Pavona from EAA? Now I'm interested!
     
  8. gc70

    gc70 Member

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    Here is a review of the Pavona line, but the .380 is a blowback ...
     
  9. Mauser lover

    Mauser lover Member

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    boooo!!!! Bring us a tilting breech!
     
  10. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    Kaybee - how well does your wife handle a feeding jam? If she does the "rack/tap/slide" easily, no problem. If she has had problems doing this in the past, you might want to consider some kind of revolver instead. Not as many shots but usually larger caliber and more powerful. FYI
     
  11. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    There are still plenty of Sig P232's available and there will be parts available for them for quite a while. Even if parts dry up, any decent gunsmith can manufacturer most any part you'd need.
    Check Armslist.com to find one local to you and take your wife to look at it. I'm confident that your wife will want to take it home.
     
  12. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Are you sure your single action colt pony wasn’t a mustang or a government model. The pony is much less common and is a double action. As an aside Colt offers the mustang, pony and pocket nine ahead of their time when Concealed cary wasn’t nearly as common.

    As to the gun the op is searching for, when no manufacture seems to be making the set of features one is looking for there often a reason. I own, have owned, or have significant trigger time with most of the guns discussed in this thread. Frankly, she may be forced into reevaluating some of objections to guns like the G42 and P238/Mustang. Those are three guns that smaller stature, not particularly into guns, women I know have all been able to manipulate and shoot reasonably well.

    Most DA/SA 380s seem to be blowback bygone designs of yesteryear that aI love the classic styling of the PPK and the P232. My perception of some these guns though is they are big for what the are and their recoil is prettt stuff for their size. A CZ 82/32 is basically the size of a glock 19.

    There is the grand power 380 that is DA/SA but I believe it is blow back. It has a decocker and is a 12 round double stack so it’s small but not tiny. I’ve never handled one so I can’t comment about it beyond that. It might be worth a look if SA/ DA is a deal breaker.

    There is the witness Pavona polymer that is offered in 380 and is da/sa. I haven’t handled or shot one. I believe it is also blow back.

    All of the other hammer fired 380s I can think of are double action guns.
     
  13. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    I also believe the Chiapa mc14 mentioned earlier in this thread is blow back in the 380 flavor. like the grand power and witness guns when they make the 380 it is blowback. RIA did the same with their 380 1911 style gun. I assume it is just cheaper and easier to build a blow back gun and 380 allows for it.
     
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  14. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator In Memoriam

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    Rock Island just came out with a 380 1911 style pistol. Im very impressed. Easy to rack also.
     
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  15. NIGHTLORD40K

    NIGHTLORD40K Member

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    Ive also owned many of the guns mentioned here. Here's the rundown with my personal experience with them:

    Walther PPK/S: Beautiful, well made, constant jams, moderately difficult to "rack", :(

    Sig P232: Beautiful, well made, reliable, very easy to rack, recoil stout due to very light weight, :)

    Sig P250: Very easy to rack, reliable, very long DA-only trigger making target work challenging, but fine for close range self defense, :)

    Sig P238/Colt Mustang/Kimber Micro: All essentially the same gun. These are great IF you are comfortable with a single action, very easy to rack, excellent short trigger, reliable, slim and (depending on the exact model) light, pricey-but worth it :):)

    Beretta Cheetah/Browning BDA .380: Difficult to rack (the Browning is much better), excellent construction, reliable, heavy in this category, but probably not too bad for a purse gun, $$ but hold their value, :):):)

    G42: (striker fired, I know), probably the easiest to carry, very long spongy trigger, reliable, snappy recoil despite locked breech o_O

    Beretta Pico: A hidden gem here (the bigger Nano seems to get all the press), great ergonomics (especially with the extended mag), all steel construction except for the interchangeable grip frame modules, hammer fired DA only), locked breech, with rebates and such they are practically giving these away right now :):):)

    So there's my 2 cents, good luck!
     
  16. Sarge7402

    Sarge7402 Member

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    REmember there were two Colt Pony's. One in the early 80's which was a copy of a Star pistol and was SA. The other came out in the mid 90's and was locked breached, and SA/DA
     
  17. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    The amount of perceived recoil from the P232 depends upon which version it is. The aluminum framed version does indeed have some, but the pistol goes right back on target due to the grip design. The all-stainless version is heavier and reduces felt recoil a bit.
     
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  18. Zendude

    Zendude Member

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    Grand Power makes a model called the CP 380. I don't know if it's blowback operated, but it is DA/SA.
     
  19. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    The baby Rock is pretty much the exact same as the Browning 1911-380. They are both copies of the older Llamma IIIA which is a scaled down 1911.

    The micro 1911 .380 pistols have the same manual of arms as the Sig P238/Kimber Micro/Colt Pony and are usually carried in Condition 1. The main difference between the Llamma based pistols vs the Star based pistols is that the Llamma design has a grip safety. The Sig P238/Kimber Micro/Colt Pony are based off the Star Model D.

    I have a Llamm IIIA along with a Sig P938 (basically same as P238). Both are some of the easiest pistols to rack the slide.

    I have to agree with others that suggested looking at revolvers also.
     
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  20. Kaybee

    Kaybee Member

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    Thanks all for your input, this has been very helpful. We had a nice conversation this morning, and made a list from the suggestions made here and did a little online research over coffee.

    “If the best feature of a .380 is that it has less recoil than a 9mm, why are these mid-sized .380s have such a hard slide to manipulate? That’s opposite of what someone who needs low recoiling would want!” My uneducated answer is that the cartridge was designed around the blowback system and not necessary for someone in her situation. Is that about right?

    This video was great. Using this technique she managed to rack the slide on my full sized pistols, but still with effort. After using her SR22 in .22LR for so long she highly values the ability to clear a jam quickly. So for her own personal pistol, even though she can “manage” a stiffer spring with technique, she still wants an easier slide

    Anyway, so, I was pushing the Glock 42 on her all morning and called her taste in pistols old fashioned. I have been “uninvited” to her trip to the gun store and Sharon is off to the gun store today with the pistol list but without me. That’s fine I got work to do around the house anyway. There’s a Lady instructor there she likes and I guess she is gonna rent a bunch of pistols and try them out.

    If you all are interested I will post what she ends up with.
     
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  21. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    Yeah, don't "push" any particular gun, or be demeaning. It's all about her. I'd rather my wife carry the only gun I have she'll shoot, a Taurus PT22 (or PT25; I have two of those, too.), then get huffy, turned off, and carry nothing. And I certainly wouldn't regard carrying a J-frame unadvisable simply because it's "old-fashioned." But, hey, I am myself. ;)
     
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  22. Kaybee

    Kaybee Member

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    MedWheeler I was just kidding with her, but you are absolutely right.

    Credit card alert for about $900! :what: Dang that's the absolute max limit we agreed on.
     
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  23. Triggernosis

    Triggernosis Member

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    Looks like she found the best - Sig P232. o_O
     
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  24. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    If momma is happy then you’re happy :thumbup:
     
  25. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    I hope than 9 bills also includes ammo and possibles.
     
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