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Anyone loaded .22LR for 1km/s?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by bigalexe, Dec 6, 2009.

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  1. bigalexe

    bigalexe Member

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    This is a "loaded" question. Also you can substitute .243 or .270 because I know .22lr is very small and slightly bigger rounds might be better suited to this.

    I would like to know if anyone has done experiments loading small calibers to fly at very high speeds. I looked and according to Wikipedia the 40gr .22LR is considered to have a muzzle velocity of 330m/s. The long range cartridges of .338 and .408 each have muzzle velocities in excess of 3 times that. So I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried to overload a .22LR cartridge for longer range. Secondly assuming the case and gun don't explode, would the round still be as accurate?

    Reason:
    I am a small guy, very small, and I would love to be able to shoot long range if only at paper. Following the laws of inertia, F=M*A, and Action/Reaction, you can deduce that a 40gr bullet accelerated to 1km/s will have far less recoil than a 200gr .338 Lapua bullet accelerated to the same velocity so I would be able to shoot long range.

    sorry about using metrics, much easier to do math with it.
     
  2. bullseye308

    bullseye308 Member

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    What about taking a .22 and shooting at 9mm casings at 100 yards? I have heard that was good practice for simulated 1000 yard shooting on a small range.

    Might not be tha answer you are looking for, but it may be a viable substitute.

    Definitely do not think about "overloading" a .22. It uses powder you can't get to do what it does. If you ever pull a bullet, the case is almost full anyway.
     
  3. fireman 9731

    fireman 9731 Member

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    The solution is the venerable 22-250.

    You can push a 40gr slug up to 4400 FPS. The only problem is that at longer distances you will have much more wind deflection and energy loss than with a heavier bullet. I have seen some people shoot a thousand yards with a .223, but it isn't easy!

    If you really want to shoot a thousand yards, without much recoil, Get a heavy barreled 45-70!
     
  4. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    ??????
     
  5. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey ljnowell,

    Yep, you can shoot a 45-70 a thousand yards quite comfortably even with my 1895 Marlin Cowboy with only a 26 inch barrel. The only thing is, the bullet shoots a big arc, and it sure is not a speedy thing going down range. However, a big 400 grain bullet will not get pushed around as much by crosswinds as a 40 grain bullet, and it will not lose as much of its speed while going the distance.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    NO.
    The case, rifle action, and soft lead bullet would not withstand any higher pressure then the factory .22RF round is already loaded at.

    In the second place, nobody reloads .22 RF or pulls the bullets and changes the powder charge.
    Empty primed RF cases are not sold, .22 RF reloading dies are not made, and the heel-type soft lead bullets would be distroyed if you tried to pull them to change the powder charge.

    If you want a faster .22RF with higher velocity and longer range, you want a .22 WMR / .22 Magnum.

    If you want longer range then that, you want a .223, or 22-250, or 220 Swift.

    But if you want to shoot 1,000 yards, you want a .30 cal or larger with bullets that have high sectional density and will fly that far.
    No .22 is going to do it.

    rc
     
  7. PT1911

    PT1911 Member

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    what he said.
     
  8. RandyP

    RandyP Member

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    I recall seeing a gun magazine article, probably from back in the 60's (OK, I'm an old fart-lol) where a crafty soul necked down a .50 BMG case to accept a standard .22LR bullet.

    I cannot recall if firing it resulted in instant vaporizaton of the lead -lol
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    It was a joke that made the rounds of all the gun magazines back then.

    Upon close inspection of the photos, you could usually find a thin solder joint where they cut off a .22 cal case neck and soldered it to a cut-off .50 BMG case.

    rc
     
  10. highorder

    highorder Member

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    rc, and you suggesting the soldered joint wouldn't hold?...
    ;)
     
  11. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I never said that!

    I think a soldered together .22/.50 BMG would be a fine idea, for someone else to try! :D

    rc
     
  12. RandyP

    RandyP Member

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    My bad....lol....I reckon the wildest wildcat that actually fired would have to be the 338-50 Talbot then.
     
  13. bigalexe

    bigalexe Member

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    Thanks for the responses, hadn't thought of .22-250 or that a 45-70 could be made to recoil lightly. I did look at some tables last night after posting which is something I hadn't done before since reloading is a foreign art to my brain. I found some reloads of .223 that were in the neighborhood of what I'm looking for as far as velocity is concerned and that may be my answer due to the plethora of guns out there that shoot that caliber.

    Also on the whole solder bit... wouldn't the burning powder heat and melt the solder, thus the bullet dragging the casing down the barrel resulting in wrecked rifling? Sounds like a fine idea to make a tent-pole out of a perfectly good barrel to me.
     
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    There is no doubt whatsoever that a soldered together case would seperate the first time it was fired.

    As I said earlier, it was a cobbled together joke making the rounds of the gun mags many years a go.

    rc
     
  15. NCsmitty

    NCsmitty Member

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  16. depoloni

    depoloni Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Oh... it's been done several ways. A mite pricey to reload for between powder and all though. 22-cal 55gr HP.
     
  17. Ol` Joe

    Ol` Joe Member

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    Look at one of the 6mm or 6.5s they are becoming the choice for 1K yd shooting today and recoil is minimal compared to some other cartridges. The 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor will do a good job and the 6.5x284 will out shoot (wind drift & trajectory) a lot of larger rounds at extended range.
    The 6x47 and a couple other 6mm`s could be fine choices too.
     
  18. dmazur

    dmazur Member

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    Another idea for consideration is muzzle brakes. Redirection of energy helps mitigate recoil, even in fairly light rifles.

    It is easier to find bullets with a high BC in calibers larger than .22. Not much larger, say 6mm, but larger nonetheless.

    High BC is a significant factor in long-range shooting, not just a high MV.

    So, you might look at a more conventional 6mm or .30 cal cartridge and plan on having a muzzle brake added. Then you can shoot all day and still have an intact shoulder. :)
     
  19. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Somebody was joshing you, pard. A .45-70 loaded for long range is a shoulder thumper. Reason I shoot a .40-65 with a 400 grain bullet instead of a .45 cal. 500+.

    How long a range do you seriously expect to shoot your Mach 3 .22 at?
    A GOOD .223 with the RIGHT barrel and bullets is a fine little 600 yard gun.
     
  20. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    I know it can be done, but I think he was looking for something that wouldnt require that level of holdover. Either way, I want a 4-70 like yours, they are awesome.
     
  21. bonez

    bonez Member

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    What do you consider "Long Range"? Our silouette club shoots 22LR at 200 yards all the time.
     
  22. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Jim,

    I wasn't joshing him about the 45-70 being able to shoot 1000 yards with rather mild recoil. I have the Marlin Cowboy in 45-70, and I know it can be loaded far beyond what I am willing to take on the shoulder. I also know the 45-70 can be loaded milder so it does not rock your world, and yet it is still able to ring the steel silhouette targets. And when I watched them shooting those things at 1000 yards, they were using 400 and 500 grain bullets to drop them in on the targets. The shooters were also not shooting the shoulder busting loads the 45-70 is capable of. It is quite interesting to see a fellow shoot his 45-70, then raise his head and wait a few seconds for the bullet to hit the target 1000 yards downrange. I have heard some folks claim they could see and follow the flight of the bullet down range, but you could not prove it by me. In any case, you don't have to thump your shoulder to shoot a 45-70 long range, and the big heavy bullet certainly is less affected by crosswinds than the little .22 peashooters and even the .30 calibers. Once they get those big 45-70s sighted in, they can lay big bullets in on a target all day. My Cowboy barrel is considered long by some at 26 inches. Many of the long range 45-70 shooters, however, make mine look like a peashooter. They commonly have 30 and 32 in barrels, and I have seen two 36 inch monsters. I am telling you those big long barrels throw 500 grain bullets down range, and the shooter hardly shows any sign of recoil.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  23. Ranb

    Ranb Member

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    3260 fps = 1km/sec? The cartridge I use for light recoil and high speed is the 17 mach IV. A 20 grain bullet at 4000 fps is nice. The BC sucks, but it is still moving quick at 200 yards.

    Using the calculater at http://kwk.us/recoil.html I get 1.7 ft-lbs recoil with a 6 pound rifle chambered in 17M4 at 4000 fps and 1.0 ft-lbs for a 22lr at 3260 fps. Compare this to a 223 remington with 4.1 ft-lbs.

    Ranb
     
  24. bigalexe

    bigalexe Member

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    By long range im referring to max of 600 yards. That is the longest range locally for me, the ranges I go to usually are 100 yards unless you stand in the parking lot which is heavily frowned upon. The object as stated is target shooting and not knocking over deer so power isn't much of a factor.

    Also I will look into Muzzle Brakes because I know the owner of Magna-Port.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2009
  25. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    You can do 600 yards with a .223 with a 1/7 twist barrel and heavy match bullets.

    There would be to little recoil to bother anyone in a heavy barrel bolt action or AR-15 rifle.

    I presonally think you will find recoil intolerable with a 45-70 and 600 yard capable loads.

    rc
     
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