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Anyone recognize this flintlock pistol?

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by denster, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. denster

    denster Member

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    I picked this up at an auction. It was listed as possibly India manufacture which I knew right away to be incorrect. The lock is engraved Dublin Castle and the crown and GR are engraved also. The barrel is 58 caliber and has the proof marks shown that I haven't been able to identify. The pistol has a martial look but I can't find anything like it. I am guessing original parts used to make and restock a pistol or a reworked martial pistol.
    In any case the lock is quality and throws a shower of sparks and the barrel bore is clean so it will make a great shooter in the worst case.
    Any help is appreciated.
     

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  2. denster

    denster Member

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    Additional info. I took the lock out of the mortise and internally it is a quality piece of work definitely not made in India. Inside the lock mortise stamped into the wood in block letters is H may be the first letter then ERRERT.
     
  3. denster

    denster Member

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    More info.
    I finally found my loupe and was able to identify the proof marks or at least two of them.
    On the far right is a London proof house view mark, in the middle is a London definitive black powder proof. The one on the left has two numbers the last being 2 but I can't make out the first.
     
    NIGHTLORD40K likes this.
  4. Jackrabbit1957

    Jackrabbit1957 Member

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    Lock and side plate look like they came from a brown bess. How big is the pistol?
     
  5. Patocazador

    Patocazador Member

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    Is it a smoothbore?
     
  6. LonesomePigeon

    LonesomePigeon Member

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    The crown/GR on the lock looks hand engraved and not like a stamp.
     
  7. denster

    denster Member

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    Yes it is a smoothbore. Caliber about .575 or nominaly what the Brits referred to as pistol caliber.
     
  8. denster

    denster Member

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    Yes all of the markings on the lockplate are hand engraved.
     
  9. denster

    denster Member

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    Additional info. On closer examination to stamped letters inside the lock mortise appear to spell HERBERT. Additionally the stock inside the lock mortise, the rammer, both lock screws have the same assembly file marks //III. Likely the barrel does also but I can only see two of the marks and don't want to take metal nose cap off to see. This nose cap appears to be a mend for a broken forestock. The Lock also has assembly marks on the plate and frizzen being //II
    Since Dublin Castle stopped engraving their locks in 1798 I'm wondering if this wasn't a broken pistol that was repaired to help meet the arms needs of the Brits during the Napoleonic wars just after 1800?
     
  10. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Member

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    Well the barrel is original, and the lock probably too. What's odd is the steel mounting, since it resembles a light dragoon pistol which were all in brass as far as I know (the Bess muskets from Dublin were steel mounted). Then the stock is cut back and there is a barrel band instead of the barrel being pinned to the stock with the stock being full length, and the side plate is similar to a Dublin Bess, not a Dublin dragoon pistol. Now it might be a militia pistol, from the time period, OR it's also possible that it was recently assembled made from some authentic parts,..., scrounged from some place like IMA.

    LD
     
  11. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    There's a British Militaria Forum where folks may be able to help you out with more info.: --->>> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/british-flint-and-percussion-arms-f4/

    For example, here's a 2 page thread about a similar topic from that same forum:--->>> https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/bri...t-dragoon-pistol-post-dublin-cast-t22651.html

    I did find more than a few Dublin Castle dragoons that were previously sold at auctions, but this one shows how some had slightly different patterns - i.e. the grip angle:--->>> https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/21020/lot/4272/?category=list

    Your pistol may have more markings under the barrel or on the stock if the stock were old enough to be period.

    Every other Dublin Castle dragoon that I saw online had a brass trigger guard & grip cap except for yours. Perhaps an indication that it was rebuilt...maybe more than once?

    P.S. Here's an early original from IMA:--->>> https://www.ima-usa.com/products/or...blin-castle-circa-1770?variant=12060789211205
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  12. denster

    denster Member

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    Thanks for the info Dave. I believe the stock is period and was broken in the forend and the barrel band used to repair it at least looking at the wood at the end of the barrel band it looks that way. The steel mountings are odd particularly the trigger guard which does not have a long tail and is not inlet into the stock the side plate also is not inlet.
     
  13. denster

    denster Member

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    That's good info and a place to start. Thanks Arcticap
     
  14. denster

    denster Member

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    The lock is smaller considerably than a bess lock. Barrel is 9 inches long.
     
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  15. denster

    denster Member

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    Arcticap I have to thank you for the lead to the British Militaria forum. They were able to I.D. what I have. Turns out it is what they call an Afghan bring back. The barrel is original with commercial English proofs and the lock is a original Dublin Castle "extra flat" pistol lock. The lock screws and rammer are original items also but the rest is Afghan restock or re-creation in modern times.
     
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  16. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Wonderful news. Thanks for the update!!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  17. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    denster

    Glad to hear you solved the "mystery" of your Dublin Castle Dragoon! Thanks for posting about it along with the photos, it made for an interesting read!
     
  18. denster

    denster Member

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    You're welcome and thanks to all who took the time to opine on it's provenance.
     
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