Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Dr_2_B, Oct 12, 2011.
Not much. Certainly not enough in my mind to warrant losing the stock and all of it's advantages.
I've used a pistol-grip-only shotgun quite a bit, but don't particularly care for them. Recoil isn't horrible, but its definitely worse than shooting a traditional shotgun.
I wish MY shotgun was made by Nike. Then the recoil would be absorbed by the AIR.
I figured it out. The physics of this is pretty simple. The gun is never at rest. If left unsupported, the air will propel the gun forward and it will become a missile. This phenomena is known as the airforce. It just so happens that the ammunition the gun fires is tuned so that its recoil force is exactly the same as the airforce. Therefore, when the gun is fired, the recoil is absorbed by the air and your body doesn't actually feel any recoil - the recoil is cancelled out by the airforce, thus achieving a perfectly balanced condition for accurate shooting (also known as trolololibrium). All your body does is prevent the gun from flying away from the airforce after the recoil subsides.
I'll believe that theory when I see a video of you visibly loading and firing some Brenneke magnum slugs from your PGO with no felt recoil. I would advise you wear a full face steel helmet before trying that, however.
Indeed. I too would love to see a video of heavy loads being fired through a PGO with no felt recoil.
The best use for a PGO shotgun is to fight your way to a screwdriver so you can put the stock back on it.
The use of the 870 MCS by our Nation's military thumbs its nose at this statement.
Some interesting "food for thought" starting at post #16 here...
I have one and it's been slower and more awkward for me than a short barreled shotgun. I'm going to put my regular stock and forearm back on asap. Mine has also slammed into my mouth when shooting 1 3/8 oz. loads at a very large rattle snake. Had me spitting blood. Not fun. Took a while to decide who was hurt worse, me or the snake.
That's what really seals the deal for me. Survivalists and woodsbummers such as myself like tiny guns. Sport hunters just don't understand. The ability to comfortably carry the weapon hands-free is almost priceless. I can even conceal the thing if needed. That actually came in handy once.
I never use 3" slugs. Even reduced recoil 2-3/4" slugs have a flatter trajectory than is needed, considering the inaccuracy of slugs from a smooth bore. As far as I'm concerned, 3" slugs are for those who have no choice but to press their shotgun into service as a weapon for hunting moose and larger game. With a PGO shotgun, I can keep 2-3/4" slugs (rem sluggers, etc.) on an 8" paper plate at 60 yards off-hand all day with zero flinching.
Are most of you just letting the gun hang there like you're holding a coffee cup when you shoot a PGO? Because I can't figure out how anybody can be getting hit by the gun otherwise?
The last time I really got to put a PGO through its paces I was sick and scrawny and I never managed to tag myself.
My brother has a Mossberg 500 20 gauge with some sort of aftermarket pistol grip installed and IMO for most practical purposes his gun is about worthless it is nearly impossible to hit any thing past a few yards or so and recoil is very harsh but I could see such a weapon fill a somewhat valuable nich for a backpacker or camper who is very concerned about the weight and size of a weapon but even then I would assume to have some sort of folding stock.
When my brother passed away I ended up with his short barreled Mossberg 500 "Watchdog" with a tactical light/laser combo. Since I already had a few shotguns for hunting, trap and HD I installed a pistol grip and took it to the gravel pit for some fun. Accurate hip shooting wasn't too difficult with the laser. Recoil wasn't bad with upland game loads, 00 buck might be another story. I would be comfortable using it for self defense, especially in tight quarters...
ok..some pictures of shotguns.
The 870 MCS in its PGO configuration is not intended as an offensive weapon, with good reason.
Its meant to blow the lock out of a door or shoot the hinges off. They aren't meant for room clearing.
They look "handy", especially with a short barrel. I can see walking through thick brush with one, with it on a sling and a machete in hand. You can drop the machete and then quickly fire a close up shot at something dangerous.
I walk through a lot of brush, and I can see the use for one. I'm forced to carry a coach gun or short barreled single by law, and they are do hinder you.
For backpacking and hiking, a better choice than a PGO would be a simple single shot. It'll break down to fit in a pack, but suitably modified, it will carry like a walking stick.
Get a used 20 gauge H&R. Bob the barrel to 18-25". Either hollow out or skeletonize the stock and add a good pad and sling studs. You'll have a fine little occasional gun that kicks pretty hard due to its less than 6 lb weight but you won't be shooting lots of shells per day.
One shot may not sound like much, but few extended firefights occur in the wild.
So, then, you guys concede that saying things like "Their best use is for fighting your way to a screwdriver" is disengenuous at best.
Internetz iz awesum!
I have little to add, except this: If you've never shot one before, try to borrow or rent one to shoot before you buy. I've shot one exactly one time. Not one session. One shell. I have no intention of increasing that number. I found it to be the very definition of unpleasant. FWIW, I have no objection to shooting 12 gauge conventional shotguns. Nor do I have a problem with big-bore revolvers. The PGO shotgun is like the worst aspects of both of them combined, though. Some people may have a highly-specialized use for them, but they are not, IMO, fun guns.
I have one of these (20 inch barrel). birdshot or slugs dont recoil much more than my garand. Buckshot is uncomfortable, though.
Has anyone involved in this discussion had training in the CAR High Position and fired a PGO shotgun from that position? I have not. I've had training and fired a traditional stock shotgun from that position and I would guess that while it would be nice not to have to tuck the stock under your arm while firing, reloads would be more difficult.
Last year I was at a public range with my son and there were some young "ninja's" ( I guess that's what you call em) blazing away next to me spraying shot all over the range with a PGO, up on the berm, in the dirt half way to target frame, never hitting the paper 25 yd target. One of them offered to let me shoot it, so I brought it up to eye level, sighted and pulled the trigger. Presto! nice pattern in the center of the paper, imagine that. They appeared to be in stunned amazement. Sighting what a concept.
A friend and I messed around with the Center Axis Relock method a number of years ago while shooting handguns. The technique is a resounding "meh", especially when compared to more traditional shooting methods.
I suppose an argument could be made that the CAR technique might be somewhat effective with a PGO shotgun, but that idea falls apart once you introduce the concept of having to shoot from unusual positions, e.g. a port that is higher or lower than the one you can naturally point through, and even under ideal circumstances, the CAR method is really only meant for extremely close range engagements anyway.
Unless it turns out that using the CAR method with a PGO shotgun offers a massive advantage over a more traditional technique used with a stocked shotgun, I don't really see the point.
I'm not going to read the responses because I think I can predict all the back and forth. Personally I like pgo shotguns, they are fun to play with and some can shoot fairly well with them. But I feel that if I need to depend on something and shots count, I can do better with a regular stock gun.
Oh, there's little doubt that PGO shotguns can be a lot of fun at the range. I've particularly enjoyed putting rounds through a Serbu Super Shorty (much easier to aim than a PGO gun with an 18.5" barrel), though the gun was much slower to employ than a traditional handgun or shotgun, and was saddled with a distinctive lack of capacity.
The problem arises when people see PGO shotguns employed in movies and tv, or go buy a PGO shotgun, take it to the range on an idle Saturday and do some plinking, and as a result conclude that such a gun makes for a reasonable choice for a working defensive implement.
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