Anyone using BE-86 in 200grn .45ACP loads?

[Charlie98]

In a quest to work up a new load for my alloy 4" Kimber and 200grn bullets, I've ditched my long-time love Unique for a bevy of different powders to test. After today, 2 powders made the cut... WST and BE-86. I was very surprised to find that Alliant ranks the burn rate of BE-86 slower than even Unique, which is, I'm guessing, why it works so well in the 9mm, too, which is also one of the reasons I was anxious to try it. The upside was no muzzle flash... both Unique and W231 give off a fair amount of muzzle flash in the 4" barrel, and I'm trying to get away from that. The BE-86 load, under a Rainier 200grn plated SWC, fairly tore the center out of the target...

Just seeing what you all have worked up with BE-86, and any observations you might have, for 200 and 230grn .45ACP loads.

EDIT: Title edited for clarification

 

[1KPerDay]

WST is my fave for this... what don't you like about it?

 

[LiveLife]

BE-86 ... upside was no muzzle flash... both Unique and W231 give off a fair amount of muzzle flash in the 4" barrel, and I'm trying to get away from that.

In my testing, BE-86 actually produced larger and brighter muzzle flash than W231/HP-38 (W231/HP-38 was near max load and BE-86 was medium load and perhaps why Alliant had to add flash suppressant to BE-86). If you want to get away from muzzle flash, consider Promo which produced smallest amount of muzzle flash compared to BE-86 and other powders.

I did a low light comparison testing for moderator taliv measuring approximate size of muzzle flashes on this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/be-86-rmr-124-g-fphp-w-g43.816345/#post-10460558

"Four loads were tested using Glock 22/KKM 40-9 conversion barrel (10 rounds of each load were fired):

HP-38 4.8 gr RMR 115 gr FMJ @ 1.130" - This load was used as reference and produced 4" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash from the side (Shooter's point of view - 1.5" round flash).

Promo 3.8-4.0 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 1" high faint orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 0.5" round flash). In low light, muzzle flash was almost non-detectable.

BE-86 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 2" long by 3" high bright orange muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 3" round flash). This was by far the brightest muzzle flash of four powders tested.

CFE-Pistol 5.2 gr RMR 124 gr HM RN @ 1.150" - 1" long by 2" high orange colored muzzle flash (Shooter's POV - 2" round flash)."

Medium 45ACP loads ... 4" Kimber and 200 grn bullets ... 2 powders made the cut... WST and BE-86.

If WST made the cut (which is a much faster burning powder compared to BE-86), you should consider other powders in the similar burn rate range to produce medium loads.

Here's an excerpt from my grouping of fast vs slow pistol powders around WST and BE-86 burn rate and there are a lot of powders to choose from - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-and-discussions.778197/page-9#post-10644921

Faster burning pistol powders:

Red Dot/Promo - IMR Red - Clays - 700X - Bullseye - Vectan Ba 10 - IMR Target - TiteGroup - Vectan AS - Am. Select - Solo 1000 - WST - International - Trail Boss - N320 - Vectan Ba 9.5 - No. 2 - Clean Shot/Lovex D032.03

W231/HP-38 - Zip - Sport Pistol - Green Dot - IMR Green - W244

Slower burning pistol powders:

Unique - Universal - IMR Unequal - Vectan Ba 9 - BE-86 - Power Pistol - N330 - Vectan A1 - Herco - Vectan A0 - WSF - N340 - 800X

Just seeing what you all have worked up with BE-86, and any observations you might have, for 200 and 230grn .45ACP loads.

45ACP is a low pressure cartridge and if you are looking for medium loads, essentially target loads, you will find faster burning than W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol powders are better suitable for producing lighter loads that are accurate. And if you like BE-86, consider WSF which is another "medium" burn rate pistol powders that is flexible enough to produce accurate loads at mid range load data along with full power loads.

For lighter loads, for decades W231/HP-38 has been my powder of choice to produce lighter target loads and I would suggest you definitely consider Sport Pistol which is around Titegroup to W231/HP-38 burn rate but meters better, burns cleaner and produces higher velocities than W231/HP-38. As to other faster powders, I have used Red Dot/Promo, Bullseye, WST, Titegroup with 200/230 gr bullets for 45ACP with good results.

Here's an example of fast powder in light target load still producing accuracy. MBC 200 gr SWC (12 BHN Bullseye #1) with light powder charge of 4.0 gr Promo and Sig 1911 produced below groups - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...omo-reloading-range-test.578444/#post-9415802

And in case you are not familiar with Promo, it is same burn rate as Red Dot but has been recently reblended to meter better and burn cleaner - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...blended-promo-for-more-accurate-loads.841097/

 

[Toprudder]

I did some BE86 load workups in 45acp, using 200 and 230gn bullets. In looking at my notes, my favorite loads look like 6.3gn with 230gn plated bullets, and 6.5gn with 200gn plated bullets (my gun, my results, use at your own risk, start low and work up, yada yada yada).

My opinion is that if you want mid-range velocity, then a faster burning powder is in order. Right now, my fave is Clays. If you want one powder for both 9mm and 45acp, then BE86 is not bad, but as with most powder in 45acp, it will be cleaner at the upper end of the charge range.

 

[Charlie98]

I guess I should clarify... by 'medium loads' I meant medium bullet weight. I consider full-house 230grn 45 to be heavy, shooting 200grn bullets even at the top end of the pressure envelope a 'medium' load. I anticipate running the 200grn bullets at the upper end of the velocity range.

WST is a decent powder for the 200grn .45 bullet, but I am also looking for a good powder to load 9mm and .380 with, too... and I think BE-86 would be a better powder for that over WST. I have 3# of WST leftover from my shotgun loading days, so working up a load with it (that works... using it under 230grn .45's didn't so much...) is worth the time... roughly 3300 rounds worth! There is also load data with BE-86 for the .41 Magnum.

As far as muzzle flash... I was shooting indoors, the flash from the BE-86 and WST loads was not noticeable compared to the W231 loads. That was just my observation, and I was quite surprised, I don't recall W231 being so flashy. As I mentioned, I didn't realize BE-86 was such a slow burner, and it makes sense it would burn better at the upper end of the load data.

The other powders I included are RedDot, TiteGroup, and W231. I'm loading the rest of my RedDot up just to get rid of it, but thought I would include it as a barometer against the other powders. I don't like TiteGroup, I have a little over a pound of the garbage left, I've been trying to use it up in .44 and .45 Colt loads and it seems like it lasts forever. Again, I included it as another comparison powder. Neither RedDot or TiteGroup delivered accuracy on par with either WST or BE-86... BE-86 pretty much ripped the center out of the bull. W231 produced about as big a flash as my 200grn Unique loads, which is why I'm trying to find an alternate to Unique with the 200grn bullet... I don't think Unique and light bullets are a good match.

 

[kmw1954]

Following along and had to comment. Have seen a couple of remarks regarding HP-38/W231 and it being Flashy. I noticed this right away when I started loading for 45acp and even commented on it a couple times because I know many folks use this powder in their 45acp loads. Most all of my questions regarding muzzle flash were dismissed with many stating they just don't see it. Now at the same time I have to say I have shot my friends 45 with cast lead 230gr bullets and the flash was nowhere near as noticeable as in my45 firing a 200gr bullet with the same charge weight.

As to powders I'm using I have gone to AA#2, HP-38 and Silhouette. I find the silhouette works very well in all my 380's, 9mm's and 45acp. Next is the AA#2 in 380 and 45 and for the 9mm I prefer HP-38 then Silhouette. I really like the Silhouette as we do a lot of indoor shooting and both the wife and I noticed right away the reduced smoke when we were indoors.

 

[Toprudder]

I don't have anything 41 mag, but I do have a couple of 44mags, and BE86 is a great powder for mid-range plinking loads. The max charge of BE86 is about 150fps slower than full-tilt magnum loads, but still a fairly stout load and accurate as well. I don't see why it won't work for 41mag as well.

 

[25-20 WCF]

I don't have anything 41 mag, but I do have a couple of 44mags, and BE86 is a great powder for mid-range plinking loads....I don't see why it won't work for 41mag as well.

Uh, .41 Magnum???


.

 

[Toprudder]

Uh, .41 Magnum???


.

Sorry, @Charlie98 mentioned 41 mag in one of his posts. Didn't mean to get off topic.

 

[Charlie98]

Sorry, @Charlie98 mentioned 41 mag in one of his posts. Didn't mean to get off topic.

It's my thread... nothing concerning the .41MAG is off topic!!! My usual mid-range load is 9.0grn Unique under any cast 215grn SWC, although I've recently discovered IMR4227 works really well in the .41, particularly in the 1894. I have about 11# of Unique on the bench... so I'll be loading .41's with it for some time.

I was surprised Alliant had data with BE-86 and the .41... but this was before I found the burn range, now it makes sense. I just assumed it was a faster powder, but, of all people, Alliant has just about every nook and cranny covered in fast-burners.

Now at the same time I have to say I have shot my friends 45 with cast lead 230gr bullets and the flash was nowhere near as noticeable as in my45 firing a 200gr bullet with the same charge weight.

I tried W231 with 230grn loads some time ago, I don't recall very much flash, but I wasn't looking for it, either. What I did notice was I was not getting the velocity equivalent to my 6.5grn Unique load, and discontinued further testing. I may have to do the same thing I just did, but with 230grn bullets in my 5" Taurus... inquiring minds want to know. It sounds kind of dumb, but that extra 1" of barrel makes a big difference in powder burn characteristics, that's for sure.

 

[k4swb]

I'm now loading only .44mag/spl, .45ACP and 9mm. Went looking for a powder that would suffice for all at most velocity levels except .44mag and am now trying W244. Looks like it will load the two auto rounds at whatever I want and get the .44 up reasonable. I'll keep W296 for heavy .44mag loads.
So far I've only tried it with Hi-Tek bullets but it is working well and I see no reason it won't do the same with either plated or jacketed. YMMV

 

[Charlie98]

I'll keep W296 for heavy .44mag loads.

As far as .41MAG loads go, I have what will probably be my last pound of H110 (W296) on the shelf. I've used it primarily for heavy cast loads (250grn) but also with lighter jacketed bullets. It seriously launches them out of the 20" 1894 barrel, but I don't really need all that speed... and muzzle blast, particularly in the pistol... for what I do. I've got IMR4227. This is not denying W296 it's rightful place, it IS the king of velocity, that's for sure.

 

[k4swb]

Don't want to hijack the thread but back many many years ago the only handgun I owned was a Dan Wesson .44mag and a couple of bbls. The most fun was the 10" heavy. I could launch a 180gr XTP with a slightly over book charge of W296 to 1750fps cronoed at 10' from the muzzle. Had to be careful or I remove the first screen.
I don't feel the need to do that any more but I like knowing I can.

That load combo would group slightly <2" at 100 yards.

 

[vaalpens]

I think BE-86 works well in 45acp with 200gr bullets.

This is my load that grouped the best for me. You should be able to go higher with the charge based on Speer data since my SD/ES chrono numbers were not great. I only tested loads from 5.8gr to 6.3gr.

45acp, P220, 4.4"
Case: Federal
COL: 1.175"
Berrys, 200gr, RS, BE86, 6.3gr, CCI300
Average: 780
ES: 49
SD: 19.3
Force: 270
PF: 156
Velocities: 760, 765, 783, 784, 809
Grouping @ 15yd: 0.561"
Test Date: 03/04/2018

 

[Charlie98]

Don't want to hijack the thread but back many many years ago the only handgun I owned was a Dan Wesson .44mag and a couple of bbls. The most fun was the 10" heavy. I could launch a 180gr XTP with a slightly over book charge of W296 to 1750fps cronoed at 10' from the muzzle. Had to be careful or I remove the first screen..

I have a Dan Wesson in .41... indeed, W296 produces the best velocity... I don't think I've ever got near 1750fps, however... and I'm not really ready to try that. Granted, the longest barrel set I have is only 6". In fact, the only time I've gotten to 1750fps is with my 20" barreled 1894, 21grn W296, and a 210grn JSP.

I think BE-86 works well in 45acp with 200gr bullets.

This is my load that grouped the best for me.

I've been reluctant to post my load, waiting to see what everyone else came up with. My test load was 6.5grn BE-86 and the Rainier 200grn plated SWC... a new bullet for me. It gave me a group very similar to yours.

 

[bbqreloader]

Charlie, 6.3 gr, Xtreme 200 gr plated FP, avg 711 fps. Favorite load so far for plinking

 

[Toprudder]

I've said it before, but if I could only have one pistol powder, it would be BE86. It is ideal for some calibers. It may not the best in others, but still works very well. They even have load data for it in 460 now.

 

[bbqreloader]

Check out the mega thread for more info on BE 86 https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/be-86.760289/