Anyone with new 642 have issues with the internal lock?

[Frank1991]

Those without locks have no need to support pre-lock guns as pre-lock S&W's have no lock-related issues. Aside from the potential functional problems and unattractive look of the locks, I like the new Smiths (except the fugly star-wars inspired styling - yuck.) Point being that there are a great many pre-lock Smiths available for less money... and they're a lot more likely to retain value better (or appreciate) and be more marketable on the used market than S&W's with locks.

All personal preferences, value retention, marketability etc. aside, there is one indisputable fact:

Pre-lock S&W's will NEVER fail their owners due to lock-related problems.

That cannot be said about S&W's with built-in locks. And that's pretty much what this all boils down to. Each person can decide for themselves whether they want to accept the risk of the lock or not and only they are subject to the results of that decision. You don't mind having the lock? Fine with me... have at it and enjoy. Doesn't bother me at all, it's your gun. To each his own.

I think that a lot of the fuss that the non lock Smith owners make is because they want to feel inferior to those with the locks. And, I would be willing to bet that many of the stories of malfunctions are nothing but false. Anything can malfunction, and the fact that the quality of the older Smith's is sometimes questionable may put the likliehood of a malfunction greater for one who is using an older Smith verses a newer Smith with the lock. I do not buy my guns for looks so the fact that it is ugly is not an issue for me. I use my guns as tools. You, DHart, from your pictures have some really awesome looking guns that are as sweet looking as it gets. However, I am not all that concerned as to the appearance of my guns. To each his own on that subject.

So the fact is that you are right - a pre lock gun WILL NEVER malfunction due to lock faulure, but an older Smith which has been subjected to more use (and sometimes abuse), and maybe poor quality control may be more likely to malfunction than the newer Smith!

 

[DHart]

Any gun made any time can have quality problems, no new gun brands, including new S&W's are immune to QC problems... you've got to take each gun (Glock, S&W, Colt, Kimber, HK, etc.) on a case by case basis to evaluate quality and reliability.

My thinking is that there are already enough things that can go wrong during a defensive encounter... preparedness issues, holster problems, awareness issues, ammo failures, gun parts breakages, etc. There are a ton of things that can go wrong, so if I can eliminate one or more "possible" failures, so much the better. By side stepping the guns with locks, that's one less thing I have to even give a thought to.

I also prefer simpler designs with fewer parts vs. more complicated designs with more parts. I never said I would prefer a worn out gun to an unused one, just that I prefer to sidestep the lock issue entirely by using S&W's which don't have locks in them. I've got quite a few pre-lock S&W's and I assure you none of them are of lesser quality than a comparable lock version. Nor are any of them heavily used. It's so cool that one can still find five-, ten-, fifteen-, twenty-year old guns that are virtually new in the box! For less money than a new one with the lock! We're really fortunate to have so many new and like new Smiths that are available to purchase. I think a lot of gun buyers are unaware of this and might appreciate learning about it.

I don't believe that because there are a myriad of possible things to go wrong that one should readily accept additional (and avoidable) things that can go wrong. I participate in these discussions because I think people who are new to S&W's should be aware of potential problems with the lock so they can decide for themselves whether to buy one with the lock or buy one without.

Fortunately, we gun buyers have lots to choose from and the more aware we are of the different choices, the better decision making we can do. Some will choose to accept the lock and others will choose the pre-lock. All other factors being equal, I think the choice for a pre-lock is a better one, that's all. If there were no fine quality pre-lock Smiths available and I wanted to buy a S&W, I would buy one with the lock. But as of today, fortunately, there are a lot of fine quality pre-locks available for those who want them. And for those who want the lock, well, they're quite readily available as well.

 

[tomkatz]

Anything can malfunction, and the fact that the quality of the older Smith's is sometimes questionable

All I can say is in the last 30 years I have put alot of rounds downrange through older snubs, and I have never had a problem with a snubbie, not even once. Way back then I only had a couple handguns and I'd shoot the heck out of the snub guns.....IMO older smiths are darn good and I'll let you guys who own and believe in the new stuff keep me apprised of how they are doing
And that is why I love these forums, even us dinosaurs who won't change our ways have a chance to see how the newer guns are holding up....
.....tom

 

[DHart]

Anything can malfunction, and the fact that the quality of the older Smith's is sometimes questionable

You're right... anything can malfuuuuuuunction. The quality of any gun, S&W, Colt, Kimber, whatever, whether brand new, untested, in the box or old and always reliable is sometimes questionable. Each gun has to be taken on a gun by gun basis to see if it runs right at the moment. Next moment, well ya never know what's going to happen.

To those that have decided that the lock is not an issue for them, I say that's great for them. One of the nice things about being human is that you can decide what will be an "issue" for you and what won't... doesn't matter what it is, you can decide whether it'll be something you want to be concerned over or not.

If you think your girlfriend might be cheating on you, you have the power to let that be an issue for you or not allow it to be an "issue" and forget about it. But that's got nothing to do with whether she is actually cheating on you or she isn't. All it means is that you've decided not to let it be an "issue" for you so you won't have to think about it anymore.

If you've convinced yourself that the lock isn't an issue for you, that's great. It doesn't have to be an issue for you. The human mind is a wonderful and powerful thing. But convincing yourself that the lock isn't an "issue" doesn't make the possibility that you will have a lock-related failure at some time go away. It just means you've decided not to be concerned about it.

It's perfectly ok to accept the lock and not let it be an issue for you.

But if you want to be certain that you won't have any lock-related problems, then get a S&W without the lock and you won't have a lock to have to decide whether to have an issue over or not. I like this approach because it's just one less thing to have to give even a thought to. And I suspect there are quite a few others who would prefer to sidestep having to even think about the "lock". This approach is ok too.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Frank1991,

It's not a big deal. If you're having a hard time finding one without the lock, get one with the lock - you can disable it pretty easily by taking the side plate off and pulling out a couple of parts. Save the parts you take out and you can put it back again later if you want.

Worrying about the lock too much is like making a mountain out of a mole hill. The lock giving you trouble is somewhere around #876 on the list-of-things-that-can-go-wrong. If you're losing sleep over it, disable it.

 

[Titus]

If you think your girlfriend might be cheating on you, you have the power to let that be an issue for you or not allow it to be an "issue" and forget about it. But that's got nothing to do with whether she is actually cheating on you or she isn't. All it means is that you've decided not to let it be an "issue" for you so you won't have to think about it anymore.

My girlfriend is cheating on me?! I hope my wife doesn't find out. I knew that lock was evil!

 

[DHart]

My girlfriend is cheating on me?! I hope my wife doesn't find out. I knew that lock was evil!

Titus... yes, that danged lock is the cause of all the world's evils! Hope your wife doesn't find out either!

 

[Frank1991]

You're right... anything can malfuuuuuuunction. The quality of any gun, S&W, Colt, Kimber, whatever, whether brand new, untested, in the box or old and always reliable is sometimes questionable. Each gun has to be taken on a gun by gun basis to see if it runs right at the moment. Next moment, well ya never know what's going to happen.

To those that have decided that the lock is not an issue for them, I say that's great for them. One of the nice things about being human is that you can decide what will be an "issue" for you and what won't... doesn't matter what it is, you can decide whether it'll be something you want to be concerned over or not.

If you think your girlfriend might be cheating on you, you have the power to let that be an issue for you or not allow it to be an "issue" and forget about it. But that's got nothing to do with whether she is actually cheating on you or she isn't. All it means is that you've decided not to let it be an "issue" for you so you won't have to think about it anymore.

If you've convinced yourself that the lock isn't an issue for you, that's great. It doesn't have to be an issue for you. The human mind is a wonderful and powerful thing. But convincing yourself that the lock isn't an "issue" doesn't make the possibility that you will have a lock-related failure at some time go away. It just means you've decided not to be concerned about it.

It's perfectly ok to accept the lock and not let it be an issue for you.

But if you want to be certain that you won't have any lock-related problems, then get a S&W without the lock and you won't have a lock to have to decide whether to have an issue over or not. I like this approach because it's just one less thing to have to give even a thought to. And I suspect there are quite a few others who would prefer to sidestep having to even think about the "lock". This approach is ok too.

I think that having the lock is an equal trade off verses buying an older Smith. Sure the lock may malfunction, but I really like buying new guns that have never been fired. If you buy used, you do not know the true history of the gun. It may have been dropped, mishandled, ect, ect, ect. Of course the person selling you the gun will always tell you that he has done everything to properly maintain the gun and that it is perfect, but is it? A new gun will come with a lifetime warranty, will a used Smith? With older Smith quality control issues and the fact that the history of the gun is unknown, I believe that this makes it an equal trade off to buying one with a lock. While I feel that the chances of a lock related malfunction are very very rare, I feel that the chances of another type of malfunction with an older Smith are probably equal if not more.

I look at it the same way as buying a used car. I know lots of people who like to buy used cars. I prefer to buy new cars. I have been with friends to buy used cars, and the seller ALWAYS only tells how good of a deal the car is. Sadly, I have seen some of my friends regret their used car purchase. With a new car, I know it's history and I have at least 3 years or 36k miles to find out the issues and get them fixed for free.

 

[Pilot]

Anything mechanical can fail. The internal lock on the new S&W may increase the probablility of a mechanical failure. To me, the increased risk, if any is not high enough. The 642 is my wife's gun anyway.

 

[Mulliga]

The way I see it, it boils down to two issues.

1. Can you trust a used gun?

In my opinion, you can trust a used gun if you run a few hundred rounds through it and it works fine.

2. Can you find a prelock 642?

I couldn't (I can't transfer anything via the Net anymore, and the gunshops/shows in my area don't carry many prelock 642s, especially not the +P rated 642-1s).

Simple as that.

As I said before, S&W doesn't deserve to be singled out here. HK USPs have internal locks, for example, and there isn't nearly as much drama over them.

 

[tomkatz]

With older Smith quality control issues and the fact that the history of the gun is unknown, I believe that this makes it an equal trade off to buying one with a lock. While I feel that the chances of a lock related malfunction are very very rare, I feel that the chances of another type of malfunction with an older Smith are probably equal if not more.

I for one would like you to show me cases of the older smiths having problems.....you say folks are making up the problems with locks, several have posted incidents of lock failures....
The number of problems I have seen posted in older smiths is so miniscule compared to the huge amout of these guns out there, it is just a non issue.....I'm not trying to start a war here or anything, just saying that with my 30 year history I already wrote about with all kinds of smith revolvers with thousands of round downrange, and the fact that I almost never read about troubles with any of the pre lock guns, what would make a person leery of these guns?
AFAIK I do have a lifetime warranty on all mine, but I have not had to use it so I won't swear to it.
I see older smiths all the time that are absolutely PRISTINE.....if you know how to do a revolver check to see that all the tolerances are right, and you can see well enough to be able to tell if the gun has been dropped or not(I mean come on, if a gun is dropped hard enough to do damage it will definately show) then you can end up with a gun that is for all intents and purposes a NEW gun, for less money. And it doesn't have no stinking lock!!!!!
tom

 

[pezo]

I called Smith and spoke to one of their reps and he told me that it is suspected that a lot of the reports that they get of guns locking up (and he said that it is a very very rare report) are non factual and an attempt to get Smith to take the lock off.

. and lets hope smith gets the message from its customers and does it. To be honest I WILL NEVER BUY A NEW SMITH AND WESSON DUE TO THE LOCKS. Not trying to be unfare but I buy guns not just for target and practice but as if they would be needed for defense as well. sturm ruger da's have no locks and are quite reliable. this would be the gun I'd go for if needed for defense, in a heartbeat. Now their are locks on new single action "cow boy" ruger guns. but they are hidden in the grip (non eye sore), and I would remove them in a heart beat.

 

[Titus]

I for one would like you to show me cases of the older smiths having problems.....you say folks are making up the problems with locks, several have posted incidents of lock failures....
The number of problems I have seen posted in older smiths is so miniscule compared to the huge amout of these guns out there, it is just a non issue.....

What is the percentage of pre-lock guns with problems versus post-lock?

 

[Titus]

Those without locks have no need to support pre-lock guns as pre-lock S&W's have no lock-related issues.

So there are no dash revisions or recalls of pre-lock guns? If you're willing to take your chance that they got it right on whatever dash version you got, I guess that's up to you.

 

[Titus]

For those who want to pull their heads out of the sand, there are plenty of first-person, factual accounts. If you want to find them, you can. They're all over the place. But if you just want to live in denial, that's ok too. Your guns, your life, do as you like.

A quick search brought up three first hand accounts on the S&W forum alone, which is most certainly a small portion of actual occurrences, considering how few people from the vast sea of guns owners actually post on these forums.

=========
45WheelGun on the S&W Forum:

I am one of the three who have had their lock fail. Mine was also a lock spring, as verified by S&W.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Erich from Albuquerque, NM, member of the S&W Forum and others:

I actually own a S&W model 60-15 3" with an idiot lock that has caused me trouble. When I oafishly knocked the unloaded gun from a countertop to the hardwood floor, the lock's "flag" mechanism (the part that has the little tit that engages the hammer itself and locks the hammer up) got a bit crossways in its slot and jammed the thing up tight as a drum. Since I was home and not engaged in a fight with a felon, I was able to dig the "key" out of the box in the safe and set it to right by fully engaging the lock and then disengaging it.

Had I not been home, I would have been holding a fairly small inert piece of steel. Even if I had the "key" on me, pulling out a keyring and trying to find an especially small one is not on my dance chart if I'm struggling and in need of my self-defense gun.

So . . . based on my experience, I would strongly advise you to look around until you found something without the idiot lock. You're too nice a guy to have to deal with such potentially dangerous hassles.

More from Erich
Posted by Erich (Member # 2536) on 02-18-2005 01:52 PM02-18-2005 11:52 AM:

Well here's some first-hand testimony (if you'll accept it from an "officer of the court" ):

I'm one of the clowns who's actually had his lock self-engage, although it was only after I oafishly knocked the unloaded 60-15 off a countertop onto a hardwood floor. The "gun-locked" flag did NOT fully raise, but the entire gun locked up.

If I recall correctly, the “gun locked” flag seemed to be sitting just a bit askew in its slot, in addition to being raised ever so slightly. It was NOT raised into the "gun locked" position, and I had to really look at it to see that it was up from flush at all. I didn't pay much attention to looking at it at the time, though, since I was mainly in a panic to get the revolver so that it was working again.

I have no idea what actually happened inside the gun to lock it up: I didn't take the sideplate off when it was locked up.

After a couple of seconds' worth of muttering, I went to the safe, got the S&W box out, found the key, and inserted it. Turning it to unlock wouldn't budge a thing - the key wouldn't turn, if I recall correctly. I then turned it all the way to lock (which raised the flag fully - as I said earlier, it had been just a teensy bit out of flush with the frame after the fall) and then turned it back to unlock . . . and the gun worked.

I was happy the gun worked again - I'd been terrified that I'd broken it and that I'd have to send it back to S&W to see if they'd fix it under warranty even though I'd been the clod who knocked it off the counter. I've since put the key onto my keyring - dropping a gun is the type of thing that Murphy would have happen right before you needed the gun.

I don't really think of this as a major concern (since I never carry the J-frame without another J-frame in reserve), but I wouldn't be averse to grinding off the lug that locks things up inside. I may do it yet. I don't really know. As others have said, there are more pressing things to worry about.

I don't know if my clumsiness resulted in the Seinfeldian "one-in-a-million-shot" that jarred the lock out of alignment and function, but the other stories folks relate on the 'net, together with Mr. Ayoob's column make me think the problem is not as rare as all that. Still, what are the odds I'm going to drop the gun? I haven't done it since. . . .

Oh, and I've reloaded for almost 20 years and never had a problem with a jumped bullet. There have been a few times when I failed to properly seat primers and that made it difficult to turn the cylinder, but it's never been impossible.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From Joni_Lynn on the S&W Forum:

I don't use the lock in mine, but I do carry the key since the thing has engaged itself twice now.

I may disable it one of these days. In the meantime it is a totally useless carry gun in that condition.

Last time I shot it I couldn't get it to duplicate that action though. I figure there must be some way to jam it in one position so it stays put. No, I'm not sending it back to S&W. I've found their customer service to be quite friendly and not at all difficult to get along with, but sometimes when a gun has been in '4 times' for the same thing I wonder if the night janitor is doing the work on mine. Eventually mine were all fixed or replaced. The majority of my S&W's have been picture perfect from the start.

The gun in question is: My "ex-carry" gun is a S&W 340PD, the ammo for carry is Federal 125gr 357 in the silver box. The 158 American Eagle stuff is a bit on the testy side recoil wise, but I've shot some of that as well.

I know what to remove and where to remove it from to disable that thing. I don't see how it could possibly have engaged by itself now that I look at it, but then again my key also rounded off so I can't move it either way anyhow. Now I just need to consider if I want to do it or not.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Osprey
Administrator

Posted 20 October 2005 10:20 PM
I just spent some time searching the "archives" of the forum looking for what I could consider to be legitimate lock induced failures. I found 6, but three of those were from another reputable source and in one of the off forum incidents, the lock flew off, but the gun kept working.


=========

It's really just a matter of whether you don't mind running the risk of lock failure or not. Chances are you'll probably be ok. Are ya feelin' lucky today? It's a nice day, go out and shoot some guns or take a motorcycle ride... I'm going to do both.

Okay, these are 6 of 7 incidents claimed that I'm aware of (assuming that the other three mentioned are from the Ayoob article, which I believe they are). Only two of them had any useful information to back them up, that being 45WheelGun's and JayFrame (not listed here). Both were told by S&W that it was a bum cam lock spring.

Who can list others?

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I look for pre lock myself, online and in the shops, and just never seem to find them. Once I spotted a 640-1 on Gunbroker, but after five people had bid on it, I couldn't afford the price when I factored in the cost of the gun, the shipping, and the FFL transfer fee on top of it. I rely on lay away plans to afford my guns so money is a primary concern. The bottom line is it's too rare -- and too long a waiting period for one to show up. Sine 2000 when I first got into shooting - I haven't actually seen even one. Of all my revolvers in the Smith line: 60 2", 36Lady Smith, 686 4" (used), 686 2" - I haven't had a problem with one failing to fire. If you're fortunate to find a used pre lock that you can afford, power to you, I for one can't.

 

[Old Fuff]

Finding a selection of small, pocket-carry revolvers may be limited because where you are the sale of such guns in the first place is somewhat restricted because of laws and red tape. In a given area there is always a relationship between how many new guns of a certain kind are sold vs. how available they are in the used market.

When I'm looking for good buys in the used market (which is most of the time) I seek out models that are relatively common, and not in great demand. I will for example, jump on a S&W model 15 (K-frame/adjustable sights/4" barrel/.38 Spec.) that's reasonably priced rather the a model 19 (mostly the same, but in .357 Magnum) with a price tag $100.00 or more higher. A Colt Police Positive Special with a 4 or 5 inch barrel often sells for much less then a Detective Special (which is the same gun except it has a 2" barrel).

I am also willing to accept guns that are less-then-perfect in finish and cosmetics if the chambers, bore and mechanics are O.K. A great finish after all won't make it shoot any better, but if it is too perfect I may be inclined to keep it that way at the expense of using it. I always have the option of having the gun refinished later if I decide I want to.

When you go into a shop you may notice that the "hot" popular guns are in the front row of the case. I never fail to look and see what's in the back ...

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

I look Old Fluff, believe me but it's a tough find (especially in my state) - and one of the reasons I've taken to Ruger revolvers lately. I'm still crazy about the SP DAO.

 

[DHart]

Frank... you've convinced yourself that you probably won't be one of the unlucky ones, so why don't you just buy the gun with the lock and set out to see if it ever happens to you? But you may always be wondering in the back of your mind, that little voice saying "I probably should have just gotten one without the lock."

Regarding warranty, I've sent a few guns with timing issues (all Smiths do this, by the way) back to S&W for corrrection and have never been charged a penny. These were guns I bought used, guns as old as 20 years. S&W takes care of it's gun owners and has never asked me if I was the original owner... they stand by their guns new and older for whoever sends them in.

As for not wanting to buy a Smith made before 2000 because of supposed "poor quality", how do you think S&W made their stellar reputation for fine revolvers? Have they made some lemons in the past? Sure, just like any gun maker. Do they make some lemons today? Sure, just like any gun maker.

Perhaps you don't know how to evaluate a revolver to determine it's condition. (You should know this whether buying new or used. You could find a new gun made last month that's a lemon! So you just have to check each sample, new or used, to see how it is.) If you knew that, you could easily determine the quality of a used S&W. As for worrying about buying a used gun because you're afraid it might have been dropped? Come on... you need to learn how to look at and evaluate a gun. It's pretty easy to get a good idea of the condition of a new or used gun. As a gun owner, it's incumbent upon you to become intimately familiar with your guns - that means understanding clearly how they work, being able to determine their condition, reliability testing and all of that. Otherwise, it's probably best not to own guns.

There are a lot of pre-lock S&W's on the market that are still NIB! I've purchased a number of ten to 15 year old S&W's which were still brand new and unfired in original boxes... these guns are as cherry as it gets... selling for less than a new one and worth more on the used market tomorrow than a new one you bought yesterday!

They're not as readily obtained as just dropping in at your local gun shop and buying a new one, but many here will tell you that they are worth the extra effort to find and acquire. Pre-lock S&W's are the only Smiths I buy and you would probably salivate if you could see, hold, and shoot any of them. They are as desireable as a S&W can be, moreso than the new ones, actually, because the parts quality, build quality, fit and finish is better than is being done today. Not to say that new S&W's aren't great guns... they are great guns. Aside from having the lock, I like them. But I buy pre-lock because I can get everything I want in a pre-lock and don't have to even think about any lock issues, keys, etc.

I understand that you are on a mission to dispell any doubt about the lock so you can ease your mind and buy a new gun, lock and all. I believe that the chances that you will have an inadvertant lock set during recoil or if you drop the gun are slim, but it is a possibility. You've clearly convinced youself that new is what you want, so I think you should just go buy your new gun and get on with it.

 

[Old Fuff]

Mastrogiacomo:

I look Old Fluff, believe me but it's a tough find (especially in my state) - and one of the reasons I've taken to Ruger revolvers lately. I'm still crazy about the SP DAO.

I understand your situation ...

However getting stuck with Rugers isn't necessarily a hardship case ...

Your SP-101/DAO is really a conventional revolver with a bobbed hammer (which of course you know) but the same kind of conversions can be done on Colt's and Smith & Wesson's. This may open some more choices.

Consider getting an older S&W Military & Police .38, or a regular model 36, 37 or 60 J-frame and having it bobbed. A "K-frame" S&W (especially one made before 1947 with their "long action" can be easly and inexpensively set up with an exceptionally nice double action that is far better then anything found on a J-frame.

This is the kind of stuff you find on the back row of the showcase.

 

[Frank1991]

Frank... you've convinced yourself that you probably won't be one of the unlucky ones, so why don't you just buy the gun with the lock and set out to see if it ever happens to you? But you may always be wondering in the back of your mind, that little voice saying "I probably should have just gotten one without the lock."

I have two Smith's with the lock. I had one without the lock but sold it (not due to poor quality, but to buy another non Smith pistol). And one of the "unlucky" ones??? Come on you are being ridiculous. I just have a hard time relying 100% on a used firearm that someone else may have abused. And, I am familiar with how to check a revolver for quality, but there is always something that can slip by. Therefore, I would rate reliability of a used (gun that someone else owned) and a new gun with the lock to be about the same.

 

[DHart]

Frank... sounds to me like you've got it all figured out for yourself now. Only you have to deal with the results of your decisions... not any of us. I'd say go forth and buy whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy!

 

[Frank1991]

Frank... sounds to me like you've got it all figured out for yourself now. Only you have to deal with the results of your decisions... not any of us. I'd say go forth and buy whatever makes you feel warm and fuzzy!

Thanks - I look forward to buying a new gun with a warranty and one that I know has not been poorly treated by someone else.

 

[J Miller]

In the 35 years that I have been shooting I have purchased and owned 10 S&W double action revolvers. Guns from early WW II, a Victory model in 38 S&W to a 25-5 made in the early 80s. I've fired all of them. Some extensively. Loaded for all of them, and worn out a couple of them, by use.
Not one them has ever become non-functional because of parts breakage, or a system malfunction.

Seven were bought new, three used.

Of the four that suffered malfunctions three were bought new, one used.
14-4 - Bought new: The cylinder would open sometimes, but refuse to open other times. Turns out the forward end of the extractor rod end was cut at an angle. Once straightened it worked perfectly. Manufacturer error.
25-2 - Bought new: Worked fine for a couple of years then began to lock up during DA fire. Turns out it had developed excessive endshake and that was causing a bind. Once corrected gun worked fine again. Wear from use.
28 no dash - Bought well used: Worked fine for several years and several thousand full house magnum loads. Timing slipped and it required an moderate overhaul. Once done it continued functioning untill erosion of the forcing cone caused severe side spiting. Barrel set back, forcing cone recut, and another overhaul. Again working properly. Wear from use, N frames are not imune from wear and tear.
25-5 - Bought new: Center locking system parts worn out after 5K rounds of standard and slightly hotter loads. Endshake also became a problem causing missfires.
Since this has been corrected it's back in use again. Wear from use.

So much for not buying used guns because you don't know what their history is.

I've had excellent luck from all the S&Ws I've owned. Used and new.

However I totally agree with DHart, there is no sense in buying a gun with a use prevention device built in. These ARE NOT SAFETIES! They are devices designed to prevent the gun from being used. Period.
Since I have no new S&W with locks I can't report on them. However I am not naive enough to dismiss all the reports just because I've never had it happen to me.

I'll stick with the older Pre agreement, pre MIM, and pre lock S&Ws. That way I'm happy, and I can feel secure that my gun will fire if and when I need it.

Joe

 

[Frank1991]

In the 35 years that I have been shooting I have purchased and owned 10 S&W double action revolvers. Guns from early WW II, a Victory model in 38 S&W to a 25-5 made in the early 80s. I've fired all of them. Some extensively. Loaded for all of them, and worn out a couple of them, by use.
Not one them has ever become non-functional because of parts breakage, or a system malfunction.

Seven were bought new, three used.

Of the four that suffered malfunctions three were bought new, one used.
14-4 - Bought new: The cylinder would open sometimes, but refuse to open other times. Turns out the forward end of the extractor rod end was cut at an angle. Once straightened it worked perfectly. Manufacturer error.
25-2 - Bought new: Worked fine for a couple of years then began to lock up during DA fire. Turns out it had developed excessive endshake and that was causing a bind. Once corrected gun worked fine again. Wear from use.
28 no dash - Bought well used: Worked fine for several years and several thousand full house magnum loads. Timing slipped and it required an moderate overhaul. Once done it continued functioning untill erosion of the forcing cone caused severe side spiting. Barrel set back, forcing cone recut, and another overhaul. Again working properly. Wear from use, N frames are not imune from wear and tear.
25-5 - Bought new: Center locking system parts worn out after 5K rounds of standard and slightly hotter loads. Endshake also became a problem causing missfires.
Since this has been corrected it's back in use again. Wear from use.

So much for not buying used guns because you don't know what their history is.

I've had excellent luck from all the S&Ws I've owned. Used and new.

However I totally agree with DHart, there is no sense in buying a gun with a use prevention device built in. These ARE NOT SAFETIES! They are devices designed to prevent the gun from being used. Period.
Since I have no new S&W with locks I can't report on them. However I am not naive enough to dismiss all the reports just because I've never had it happen to me.

I'll stick with the older Pre agreement, pre MIM, and pre lock S&Ws. That way I'm happy, and I can feel secure that my gun will fire if and when I need it.

Joe

Joe: I am certain that you can find hunderds of people who have purchased brand new Smith's with the lock that will also report no issues with their guns or locks. You have been fortunate not to have had an issue with any of your guns, and most people with locks will be just as fortunate. I just think that buying an older used gun is probably equally likely to malfunction as one with the lock. I am saying this considering all the factors. I know that the newer guns have the locks with additional parts to malfunction, but the older guns are just that - older. Nothing lasts forever and over time parts will wear out. Best of luck.