Apartment interior self-defense load for .38 Spl suggestions

[MEHavey]

5/8 " drywall, and the next walls are 8-16 feet apart. That distance apart is sufficient to slow down possibly tumbling bullets

Meanwhile, anyone that room potentially dies.
Google some the drive-bys in which children are hit with bullets coming through the walls.

 

[Leon tP]

If overpenetration is that much of a concern, I'd be looking at the Taurus Judge or S&W Governor loaded with .410 shells.

Otherwise, someone already mentioned the Critical Duty Light ammo. In fact, most so-called Reduced Recoil loads would work great in a 36 ounce 4" gun.

Personally, I think repeated practice to ensure good hits fast would be more valuable. To that end, I would say use what you use best, loaded with what you know works and focus on hitting your target.

 

[JDeere]

LC9 with 124s and call it good. She shoots it well why start over. As others have mentioned if it's gonna be effective on the threat it's got to penetrate...

 

[luv2safari]

Meanwhile, anyone that room potentially dies.
Google some the drive-bys in which children are hit with bullets coming through the walls.

Yep

Apartments keep people close together, and a pass through in an apartment is pretty dangerous.

 

[Shotgun Willy]

I have never used any, but I think frangible ammo is basically made for this.

 

[MEHavey]

frangible ammo is basically made for this. [ minimal chance of inter-room wall penetration] (meh)

See https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9mm-frangible-gypsum-penetration.353800/post-4372642
>
> The wall were placed 6-8 feet from each other, in a row.
> 9mm frangible went through 3 complete walls

 

[bangswitch]

Our daughter will be moving with her boyfriend to Indianapolis for grad school and will be residing in an apartment complex that was remodeled from a building that had been a two-story motel as first built. They have leased a corner unit on the second floor. Her usual carry pistol is a Ruger LC9s which she shoots well. Her boyfriend shoots but does not have a pistol of his own for now. Last night she brought up the topic of what gun(s) she should take along for dedicated self-defense in the apartment and I told her I'd recommend taking one of our S&W 4" DAO 64s in .38 spl as they can be relied upon to fire most any loading and that some thought must be given to avoiding over penetrating of the walls with missed shots. I started doing some reading up on current commercial loadings that might be suitable last night and then had the thought that I might do better putting the question to the members here....any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks! - Mike (aka Neo-Luddite)

If she's going to have a 4" .38 Spl, and you assume any defensive use in the apartment would be shots within 10 feet, I'd load it with snakeshot cartridges and have her aim for the face of the perp. I guarantee he won't like getting hit with one, much less a whole cylinder full. While he's screaming and clawing at his face, smack him good with a ball bat just before she calls the cops. Won't be any problems with penetrating the walls.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

You stated that the LC9S was her favorite carry pistol. I assume that indicates that she shoots it well and practices with it.

If that's the case, that is the one that she needs to take with her for apartment defense. Load up with a good high quality 124gn hollow point and call it good.

If that is the one she is the most comfortable with and shoots the best with, then misses will be minimized over learning a new platform.

As has been said, anything that can reliably stop a man it going to punch through several layers of sheetrock.

Harden the apartment as best as possible. Avoid inviting reckless people home. Practice regularly with she is most proficient with.

Minimize the risk of having to use it and minimize the proability of missing the shot. That's about the best anyone can do.

You're right of course and I had this thought, too. Her little Ruger has "lived" for the last few years in a car safe and as a consequence wasn't being taken indoors. At her prior college she graduated from an hour South of KC in Missouri she had no other recourse as guns were banned in the dorms. Being off campus at Indy she will likely have the Ruger with her more consistently wherever she is. But I do want her to add the wheel gun as an option as it will be dedicated to the apartment and not leave when she does and will remain for her boyfriend's use as well. She has had some experience with revolvers from hunting so it won't feel like a completely new experience to master.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

If she's going to have a 4" .38 Spl, and you assume any defensive use in the apartment would be shots within 10 feet, I'd load it with snakeshot cartridges and have her aim for the face of the perp. I guarantee he won't like getting hit with one, much less a whole cylinder full. While he's screaming and clawing at his face, smack him good with a ball bat just before she calls the cops. Won't be any problems with penetrating the walls.

Good thought...I'll send a bat along!

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Thanks Everyone for your thoughtful replies! Thinking again about how we need to look into a Taurus Judge. I've needed an excuse to get one...this might be it!

 

[.38 Special]

Thanks Everyone for your thoughtful replies! Thinking again about how we need to look into a Taurus Judge. I've needed an excuse to get one...this might be it!

I've been using shot loads in my .500 Magnum. They work, at least on snakes, at least from a few feet.

Which is a long way of saying that you should buy your daughter a .500 Magnum.

 

[.38 Special]

With regard to roundnose bullets...

I have seen them flatten out like you wouldn't believe, and figure those ones would have been great manstoppers. I've also seen rounds from the same box crash right through a 2x4 and howl off into the desert. And I've shot an irresponsible number of squirrels and rabbits with 158 LRN from a .38 Special with almost no effect at all. One desert jack, believe it or not, took such a round more-or-less through the middle, paused for a moment to look around, and then went back to nibbling on a green shoot. Gunsmith Hamilton Bowen wrote up an incident wherein he shot a gopher with a 325 grain LRN in 50 caliber and still had to chase it down to finish it off.

I'm a huge fan of LRN from revolvers, for plinking pine cones and dirt clods. I love the way they look, the way they load, and the way they drop from the mold. If faced with the ultimate decision, though, I think I'd rather whack the bad guy on the head with the gun. It should work at least as well, and at least I won't perforate any neighbors.

 

[luv2safari]

Thanks Everyone for your thoughtful replies! Thinking again about how we need to look into a Taurus Judge. I've needed an excuse to get one...this might be it!

They're heavy. Can she handle something heavier?

 

[Bennj]

Something to consider, if it previously was a motel/hotel are the walls cinderblock, or some denser material? Most of the places we've stayed in seem to be constructed of something other than drywall.

 

[halfmoonclip]

My understanding is they didn't sell well... since most people don't do research to know how great the ballistics are on this round, many just saw a strange looking flush JHP and passed on the purchase in favor of a more traditional looking round. Also, they are potentially slower with a speedloader.

These were a factory rendition of Skeeter Skelton's "Planet Wrecker Specials", albeit at reduced pressures. Skeeter counseled a HBWC, loaded backwards, over a coal scoop of 2400. There's still a part box in the locker, and, IIRC, they clocked near 1100'sec in a snub. They were an ugly handful to shoot out of a light snub, and Ayoob's notion of not carrying handloads, and especially exotic ones, is why they are still sitting.
I still have a box or two of the HSTs, but the Full Charge Wadcutters are much more controllable in a light snub.
Moon

 

[halfmoonclip]

If she's going to have a 4" .38 Spl, and you assume any defensive use in the apartment would be shots within 10 feet, I'd load it with snakeshot cartridges and have her aim for the face of the perp

I'm a little leery of 'shooting to blind', but Double Tap does offer snakeshot cartridges with a light wadcutter under the shot charge. It was written up in a recent American Rifleman article, and Double Tap will sell you 20@$25. I ordered a box, and will do some experimenting.
Moon

 

[Show Me]

Sticking to the gun in hand , wadcutters have worked for decades. I'm in that crowd.

 

[jstert]

if a 38sp revolver then wadcutters. choice of apartment locale and neighbors are of equal importance to ammo choice.

otherwise a 22lr handgun. at my late mom’s apartment i stashed a 9-shot heritage roughrider 22lr single-action revolver. i like a ruger sr22 pistol for my travels. both are reliably consistent, soft-shooting tools that put multiple rounds on target. she didn’t, i don’t, stay in inner cities, or narco or gang turf.

 

[defjon]

If overpenetration is that much of a concern, I'd be looking at the Taurus Judge or S&W Governor loaded with .410 shells.

Otherwise, someone already mentioned the Critical Duty Light ammo. In fact, most so-called Reduced Recoil loads would work great in a 36 ounce 4" gun.

Personally, I think repeated practice to ensure good hits fast would be more valuable. To that end, I would say use what you use best, loaded with what you know works and focus on hitting your target.

Not a bad idea there. When I lived in an apartment I kept a el juez judge handy with the federal buckshot rounds.

While cleaning the cylinder fell out, a small part broke. My gunsmith fixed it for 7 dollars but that made me wary- a swift rap in unloading cartridges might end up with a cylinder on your lap that isn't fixable in the field.

I fell into a sw governor for a great deal. This gives you a sixth shot, and it's pretty handy, 30 ounces maybe? Less than a 1911.

In an apt I think fed buckshot is best, followed by critical defender 410 rounds, or pdx. None of these rounds will endanger your neighbors.

You have a lot of versatility with the 45 colt and 45 acp rounds (if gov) .

 

[trackskippy]

I have a Governor as well and it wouldn't be a bad choice, especially if you spend a little time with it.

Its size is a bit deceiving, as is its weight. It has a Scandium frame which makes it lighter than it looks but its balance is good and it still handles recoil well. The grip is a RB K frame sized grip and will take your grips of choice there. I have the Houge rubber Mono grips on mine.

Mine shoots the Federal 2.5" 410 #000 Buck load well, and keeps them in about a 4" string at 10 "yards". Ive heard a number of people say that they are underpowered in the penetration aspect of things, but Ive only shot paper with mine so far, so I cant say there. I would think that at across the room distances, they would probably work OK and the spread would be less than 4". No idea as to what they will do in sheetrock. I will say that the 410's are the most noticeable to shoot recoil wise. Its not bad, nor are the 45's, but they are a larger caliber and if the shooter is recoil-sensitive you may want to consider that.

One advantage to the Governor too is, it will take 45acp loaded in moon clips, which allow for a quick and easy reload. My gun also shoots the 45acp more accurately than my 45 Colt loads.

This is mine next to my 4" N frame 625 for a comparison. What youre basically looking at with the Governor is a 4" size revolver. While they may look a little ungainly, they arent. They have a typically nice S&W DA trigger and are easy to shoot well with once you get to know them.

I keep mine in an El Paso "Tanker" with a pouch of 410 and 45acp in clips on the holster. Its a grab and go sort of thing, so you can throw it in the safe while youre gone, and pull it out and keep it handy, ready to go when you're home.

All that said, I still think youre best off with the gun you always carry and always have on you, home or not. The one you shoot best with, and shoot all the time in practice with, thats going to be your best bet all around. You never have to go look for it, and you don't have to think about shooting it, so your hit probability with it is likely going to be the highest.

 

[Mosin77]

I’d vote for the LC9s with a mag-full of gold dots, Federal HST, Sig V-crowns, Winchester rangers, or your other preferred hollowpoint of choice.


No need to switch to a less familiar gun or buy new hardware, a .38sp in any loading will have just as much overpenetration concerns as 9mm and possibly be slightly less effective against a two legged threat.

 

[tubeshooter]

One thing I wanted to add - when I was talking about ball ammo earlier, I was speaking in terms of domestic/US manufacture.

I have found that European stuff appears to run a little hotter on average. I don't have a chronograph, but I had nicknamed S&B "The Spicy Meatball" due to perceived extra performance. I snap it up whenever I get the chance...


If you REALLY want to make sure it is certified mouse-phart, then get something like some WinClean or some other Total Metal Jacket, low-lead ammo. Often marketed as 'green' or environmentally friendly. Will still go through drywall and all, but about as pillow soft as things get for off-the-shelf .38 Special.

 

[babaylan]

Any high grade personal defense specific ammunition, like Hornady Critical Defense, Federal Premium Personal Defense HST, or Winchester PDX1, or the like. There's a reason they design ammunition specifically for personal defense. You want the slowest moving round that expands the most with the least amount of muzzle blast. That's what personal defense ammo is for.

Buy a few boxes, and make sure she shoots some at a range so she understands how it will perform, despite the expense. You definitely don't want to spend that much money for goofing around at the range.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I have found that European stuff appears to run a little hotter on average.

This is generally accepted as true, and is common wisdom for imported 7.65 on the Walther board.
I've Fiocchi 140 FMJs that clock 1100'sec in a snub; last ditch GTFOM for bears.

But back on topic, this isn't an issue only for the OP on this interesting thread. We all have to be really aware of penetration, and any time we fire a defensive shot, we own that bullet. Something to consider when selecting carry guns and ammunition.
Moon

 

[tubeshooter]

But back on topic, this isn't an issue only for the OP on this interesting thread. We all have to be really aware of penetration, and any time we fire a defensive shot, we own that bullet. Something to consider when selecting carry guns and ammunition.
Moon

Very true and agree 100%. Any of it - WinClean, wadcutter, the 9mm already in service, it's all (way) too much for drywall and we are responsible for every single shot.

If only it were as simple as to just not miss...


I have a new respect for the general toughness of auto glass after this thread.