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Apartment lease ban on guns California

Discussion in 'Legal' started by nicki, Mar 11, 2008.

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  1. nicki

    nicki Member

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    My daughter is leaving off campus in Davis Ca. She told me that the lease in her apartment has a "no guns clause".

    She is moving, but the next apartment complex has the same "no guns" policy.

    This are not apartments owned by the University.

    My question is does anyone know if this is legal. Certainly I respect property rights, but when you rent out a property, tenants should have reasonable use of the property.

    Since many of us are not home owners, a provision in leases that bans ownership of legal guns could put many of us at risk of being evicted.

    Any comments
     
  2. carebear

    carebear Member

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    As a landlord I could restrict anything you were willing to agree to by signing the lease, no matter how legal. Smoking, pets, loud music, overnight guests, waterbeds etc.

    It's my property, it's my rules.

    In the case of renting, the lease is your prior notice of what is allowed. If you sign saying you will abide by its terms, no one is forcing you. If you break it, you're evicted.

    There's no protected class at issue so EO isn't in play.

    Basically, if you want to live with your guns, buy your own home or find a landlord who will allow it.

    Private property rights trump gun rights in that scenario, as they should.

    Now if the lease didn't contain a "no guns" provision when you signed then you can argue you should be able to at least finish it out.

    You have the right to own guns, that doesn't mean you have the right to convenience in your living arrangements. If guns are important to you it's your choice to make.
     
  3. mekender

    mekender Member

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    not in every state.... here in NC, no body other than the state government may make rules or policies that limit the possession of firearms...

    furthermore, a lot of states consider the property "yours" as soon as you sign the lease and you become the lawful holder of the property for any thing other than things related to the building itself...
     
  4. Geno
    • Contributing Member

    Geno Member

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    In Michigan it is known as "possessor rights". Back when we rented, we had full rights to the property as though we owned it. Obviously we could not alter the home, damage it, etc. Dogs can damage, and so limiting pets is fine.

    But the landlord cannot even enter to property without permission and 24 hours notice. Castle means castle.
     
  5. carebear

    carebear Member

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    True, state laws may vary and you should be secure in the property after the lease is agreed to by both parties.

    However, assuming the landlord's property rights aren't being trampled by an overly intrusive state, if you sign a valid lease and then break the terms, you can and should be evicted.

    It's a contract, don't sign it if you don't intend to abide by it. It's your right to find somewhere else to live.
     
  6. Harvster

    Harvster Member

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    Even if the lease says no guns, landlord would have no right to look in a quick access handgun vault or other locked container. Also, usually the eviction process for renters is a several months long process and a real PITA. It likely wouldn't be pursued.
     
  7. 69Chevy

    69Chevy Member

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    I lived in a few places like this in a college town up here. I always ignored it and if I need to take my rifles anywhere, i just put them in a duffel bag. Handguns are even easier to move obviously. The landlord can't search your stuff or come in the place without prior notice unless it's an emergency. Just keep all guns/ammo/extras out of sight. Like others have said, it is legal to put restrictions on property you own and I have no problem with that. Of course, if you ever get caught somehow, then they can kick you out. I weighed the risks, and even though this is a college town, people still get shot, stabbed, and robbed here. Personally, I rather get caught with it then without it.
     
  8. drphil

    drphil Member

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    +1 to waht 69chevy said. Just dont leave them out when they do a "fire alarm inspection". Even if they do see them, the worst that can happen is she would get evicted and it is non-trivial to evict a person in CA.
     
  9. Treo

    Treo member

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    I am continually amazed by the number of posters here that are so vocal about our rights under the 2nd ammendment, but have no problem ignoring the property rights of the owner/landlord of the apartments .

    If the no firearms clause was on the lease when you signed it then you agreed to be bound by that condition. if you did it W/ no intention of abiding by it you're a liar.

    Why should the antis trust us W/ guns when we prove ourselves untrustworthy.
     
  10. HK G3

    HK G3 Member

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    My lease had a section that said you would be evicted for ILLEGAL activities, and then had subsections to this that listed the storing/selling of weapons and ammo, as well as using drugs and the standard things everyone knows to be illegal.

    I took that to mean that I could own guns so long as they were legally purchased and owned, which, obviously, all my guns are. The people don't seem to have any problems with it, since I'm pretty sure they know I'm a shooter, since sometimes my NRA magazine gets dropped off to the main office.

    I never really bothered to clarify this point with them, but as it's written, it's under illegal activities, so I would imagine I'm not breaking the agreement.
     
  11. Feud

    Feud Member

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    Agreed.

    My University requires that all student housing, both on and off campus, be "gun free". It annoys the heck out of me, and I've known many people who broke it. But I gave my word to my school, my Church (and by extension my God), and the apartment managers that I would keep that rule, and I will do so.

    What's the point of defending myself if I have abandoned my principles and honor?
     
  12. carebear

    carebear Member

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    A lease is a contract I willingly entered, I'm bound to honor it.

    Convenience is not a right.
     
  13. nicki

    nicki Member

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    Restriction on rights.

    Many people rent their homes in the United States.

    Certainly landlords have a right to protect their investment and as such their needs to be a reasonable balance between renter's and landlord's rights.

    It is interesting that we fight against government intrusion of our rights, but willingly accept private violations.

    In many states, we can't use our ccw permits when we go to work because we can't leave our guns in our cars on company property.

    Parking off company property is not a viable option for many employees depending on who they work for.

    All it takes is for the surrounding pubilc streets to be no parking zones.

    What if a lease agreement said no political or religious books are allowed in the apartment.

    We need to protect all of our rights and we need to protect them for everyone.

    Nicki
     
  14. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    If you don't like it then don't live there. I agree with the above posters who say that it is shameful that people would violate the terms of their lease simply because it is convenient for them. I am sorry but you are breaking the terms of your contract and that is against the law. While not criminal you are guilty in a civil court.
     
  15. carebear

    carebear Member

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    You need to reexamine the concept of rights.

    Your rights are absolute only so far as they do not interfere with the rights of others. There is no requirement for "balance". The concept of the Constitution was not to regulate relationships between individuals, but to define the limits of what Government can do, the Bill of Rights does not and should not apply to my property.

    If I, not the government, own the company/store/parking lot/home/apartment/1000 acres of raw land, etc. it is MINE. I should be free to bar anything I want on that property, denying access to whomever I choose for whatever reasons I care to.

    Your right in response is to refuse to do business with me.

    If the job or apartment I offer won't allow you be armed, then it's up to you to find another job, find a different apartment, castigate me in the press, do whatever you want, but you do not get to violate my right to be secure in (ie control) my property.

    The right to arms is ultimately based on the right to defend your own life and property, not to force your way onto the property of others to dictate to them. If you are able to force your wishes on my property, the whole system is meaningless.
     
  16. TAB

    TAB Member

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    in CA that would be illegal... but there is not really anything you can do about it.



    PS I got my BS at UCD :)
     
  17. mekender

    mekender Member

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    i would stand to argue that any property owner making those policies would be both infringing on the right to keep and bear arms, which specifically states "shall not be infringed" and i take that to mean by ANYONE....

    i would also stand to argue that they would be violating an individuals right to be secure in their possessions...

    why is it that we cant ban people based on race, religion, sex etc... but we can for firearms? they are all things guaranteed by the constitution....

    in most states, any clauses in a contract that are in contradiction with state or federal law are invalidated... in some states a contract that contains such clauses would render the contract null and void
     
  18. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Actually you can put whatever you want in your lease as long as it doesnt contradict the LAND LORD TENANT CODE in your area. IF it does it will be null and void in a court of law and you could owe the renter 3x damages.

    The Landlord tenant code overrides any clause you put in a residential lease.

    http://homepage.mac.com/saj777/.Public/CA_Rental_Law.pdf
     
  19. Bubbles

    Bubbles Member

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    Not legal in VA. You really need a CA attorney to answer this for you. Personally I would rent a place elsewhere since I will not patronize anti-RKBA businesses.
     
  20. mbt2001

    mbt2001 Member

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    +1 carebear

    Buy her a taser and some pepper spray and a baseball bat (cold steel has one). Maybe a dog. You can hold it down with those. It is only temporary.

    I was thinking about it, you would like to be able to call the police if someone came onto your property armed and without "consent". That being said, the same consideration must be extended to others. It's sort of like going to a party that says, "black tie". Wear a tux or don't go...
     
  21. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    And you'd be wrong. As mentioned above the constitution is a document limiting the rights and defining (narrowly) the roles of the Federal Government. Not people, the Federal Governement. Not States, the Federal Government. You have no rights, whatsoever, when you're on my property. You don't have the right to practice free speech, bear arms, practice religious ceremony/engage in religious speech, be secure in your person and possesions (think searches at concerts/metal detectors) or even to be present. If you violate the rules of my property I can "force" you to leave and be well within my rights. In some states there are specific laws that limit property owner's rights to what can and can't be denied and especially under a lease contract but that's a different animal than the one you're discussing.

    If I don't want you to bring something on my property, you can't. This is exactly as it should be. You have no right to be secure in your possessions when conducting business on my property.

    Because the federal government passed specific legislation creating protected classes many moons ago that affords people the right to conduct business regardless of race, creed, gender or color. This was done to combat the widespread refusal of many to allow people of certain races, creeds, genders and colors to do business in the same manner as others. It has nothing to do with your right to bear arms, practice free speech or be secure in your possessions. Nor does it have anything to do with their right to any of the preceeding as it pertains to the property rights of others. It only guarantees them the same rights (ostensibly) you have.

    To put it shortly, the Bill of Rights does not apply to anyone who is a guest on my property. You have only the protection of the law when you're here.
     
  22. RoadkingLarry

    RoadkingLarry Member

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    I'd sure like to see you landlords argue property rights when you get sued for race or gender discrimination....."by gard its my private property and if I don't want to rent to no colored people or single womens then by gard its my right!"
    Yup that danged old Constitution don't apply to you no way no how.
     
  23. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    "I ain't going to rent to dang gum niggah's.. and hell no, not to no dang gum slope shifty eyed kike! i knows my private property rights! "
     
  24. HKUSP45C

    HKUSP45C Member

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    I guess RoadkingLarry and k_dawg missed the part about the federal law regarding protected classes. It really doesn't have anything to do with the Constitution, it's the force of federal law at work in those cases.

    People who are on private property still have the protection of law, just not any inherent protected rights.

    Just like I can't murder you or rob you or rape you simply by virtue of your presense on my property, since those are all illegal, I can't break federal law by discriminating against protected classes, either.

    Two seperate concepts, rights and laws. I would have thought we all knew that since our 2nd Ammendment rights are constantly infringed upon by law, much to our collective and vocal chagrine.

    So, as soon as you can get your congress critters or state reps to pass a law forcing your will on property owners, you'll be all set.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2008
  25. AirForceShooter

    AirForceShooter Member

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    How would any landlord enforce this?
    If he comes into your apartment unannounced a baseball bat upside the head would be called for. That's called Breaking and Entering.
    If it's an emergency (water leak) he opens the door and screams he's there. If I catch him looking in a closet it's bat time again.
    And if Heller prevails, that lease clause is gone.

    AFS
     
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