Appeal of No-stock “Pistols”

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by guyfromohio, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. guyfromohio

    guyfromohio Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    I ran across a Kriss Vector on Armslist today for around $1300 used. It boasted that it takes 30-round Glock magazines. Now I’ve enjoyed a few pistols with braces that some people may consider shouldering. That, I get. Putting that four inch barrel in a two handle hold firm against the shoulder stabilizes and really makes a great shooting experience. I thoroughly enjoyed my MPXk with brace. But I have to ask what the appeal of a model without the brace. 16D4089E-0121-4953-B46E-A9F58A1D2240.jpeg

    Wouldn’t you be better off with a Glock 17 with a 30 round mag? Your sight alignment would be better, package would be lighter, and would be far easier to carry? Other than the “because I can” and “because I don’t need a reason” and of course “they’re cool” (all of which are perfectly valid reasons in my book), why would this gun hold more appeal than a Glock/Beretta/Walther/Sig with a 30-round mag? Show us your non-traditional pistols and sell me!
    ancientnoob likes this.
  2. Heir Kommt Die Sonne

    Heir Kommt Die Sonne Member

    Dec 24, 2018
    Because there's "appeal" to have your magazine flush with the frame.
    Plus those 30 round magazines are snagging prone for something that's such a small package (standard size pistol)
  3. SlowFuse

    SlowFuse Member

    Mar 31, 2011
    Heart of Dixie
    I'm in your camp @guyfromohio , I would only buy one of those specifically if I were going to put a stamp on it, SBR.

    Seems like people used to buy these types of guns and shoot the model as a "pistol" until their paperwork came back, then put a stock on. Now with braces being so common I think most would say there's no reason not to add the tube with brace until you're approved for the real thing. I'd also bet people filing for SBR's is down quite a bit deciding to deal with a brace instead of giving $200 to UncleSam.

    The Vector doesn't look like it would be comfortable to shoot as-is in your pic, but i've never tried one.
  4. Koroner

    Koroner Member

    Nov 11, 2019
    southwest Utah
    I have one with a brace. Thanks to the sophisticated mechanism there is virtually no muzzle flip, and it is easy to stay on target in rapid fire mode.

    I have 6 other firearms that take Glock 9mm mags so I have a boxload of them and got a screaming deal on South African ammo, and so I stopped plinking with .22 and now do so with 9.
  5. Jenrick

    Jenrick Member

    Mar 17, 2005
    Austin, TX
    You can drive the gun hard forward against the tension created by the sling (a very short bungee sling or a web sling set just a bit tighter than is comfortable to present the gun with), and do good work. H&K used to teach that in their sub gun school, specifically for the MP-5K and similar stockless variants. This was a very common method for "covert" carry/usage of the stockless sub-compact SMG. The tension in the sling, effectively stabilizes the gun for CQB type distances (10-15yds or so). If you have the time and ammo to really practice you can use it out to about 50yd with some success.
  6. beeenbag
    • Contributing Member

    beeenbag Contributing Member

    Feb 10, 2010
    Grayson, Ky
    Is that like fully semi automatic? :rofl:
    adcoch1, Pat Riot and guyfromohio like this.
  7. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

    Apr 2, 2014
    I’m guessing the fact that it’s a 9mm that weighs almost 6 lbs helps with muzzle flip... It weighs a pound more than a 8” S&W X frame or almost the weight of 4 Glock 17’s.
  8. AK103K

    AK103K Member

    Dec 27, 2002
    There are a couple of ways to shoot them without a stock, but as with most things of this type, a stock/brace would be your best bet.

    You could probably still get a decent cheek weld in that little tail and be able to shoot it using the sights. I once saw a clip of a German trooper in WWII shooting his MP40 in bursts that way, in combat. I used to shoot my MP40 and MP5 the same way on occasion. They are pistol caliber guns, so its not a big deal to shoot them that way.

    Using the sling as described above, can also be an effective way to shoot them sans stock.

    Personally, Id just add a brace, unless you didnt want it to get any bigger. The braces are the way to go unless it just has to be a stock. That whole thing is so assinine it really shows the state things are. Whats even more assinine is, we allow it to go on.

    Unfortunately at a lot of places, they dont differentiate, and you might as well single load. NO RAPID FIRE!

    And they have the best RO's with stopwatches that cant wait to harass you. :scrutiny:

    Just the sight of guns like that seems to terrify them and have them salivating at the chance to use their power, all at the same time.:p
  9. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

    Feb 12, 2011
    I had a Sig Sauer P556 pistol. The thing looked awesome, was reliable, and shot straight. However I owned it before the braces came out so I used a single point sling to “stabilize it”. My opinion? It was nothing but an expensive and extremely loud bullet sprayer. It was slow to get on target without a stock.

    With a brace attached it would’ve been a totally different story.

    Personally I don’t understand the Kriss pistol either without a brace, but more importantly with a barrel length that short if you aren’t going to put a can on it. The ammo capacity isn’t that much of a bump to matter to me in a scenario where I’d actually use one in defense. If I’m shooting a gun that big and heavy, at least give me a little longer barrel so I get closer to carbine velocities. I think the CZ Scorpion makes more sense in that regard with a 7”+ barrel.

    Kriss carbines are fun though and with a 16” barrel they do speed up my 10mm velocities pretty nicely.

    I guess it’s important to remember what the Kriss was invented for. It was meant to be an SBR for LEOs that readily accepted suppressors. The pistol versions we got are more of a fun novelty than anything IMO. But with the addition of a brace, they can be very effective.

    Sometimes fun is enough to support a company.
  10. Hartkopf

    Hartkopf Member

    Nov 11, 2019
    I can’t get into any pistols like those.

    FN five seven with 30 round magazines is the exotic thing I would consider.
  11. DaStray

    DaStray Member

    Nov 5, 2010
    West Columbia, SC
    When I first picked up my AK Draco, there were no "braces" available so all one had was a sling to try to stabilize it. As originally received, all it had was a single sling attachment point beside the handguard...not good and I couldn`t hit squat unless I was quite close...like "normal" pistol range. Hip shooting is fun but you have to essentially "walk" the rounds to the target.
    I then bought a piece that installed between the pistol grip and receiver that allowed me to attach either a single point or double point sling.
    It was now a viable shooter as opposed to a conversation piece. Some time later the pistol braces came out so I got an SB Brace. This changed EVERYTHING. I could then hit pretty much whatever I was shooting at.
    Then, it came down from the ATF that while you could have a pistol brace, you couldn`t shoulder it to fire. What? My response was some words that can`t be repeated here but you can guess. Since I shoot at a range and can`t shoot at home, I put it in the safe since I didn`t want to be spanked by the RO.
    Fast forward to the ATF reversal and we could now shoulder them again. Decided to put a red dot on it so got an Attero Arms mount and a Sig Sauer Romeo 5 and got it installed without problems.
    This changed everything, again. I can now comfortably hit what I aim at out to 100 yards which I wouldn`t have even tried before the braces became legal to shoulder.
    It`s 29.5 inches long, fairly heavy but makes an excellent truck/trunk gun and is quite powerful. Have mercy, this thing is loud though! Ear plugs and muffs are mandatory.
    Long story short, I agree with the OP in that this type pistol without a brace is a conversation piece that looks cool but is essentially useless. With a brace then it`s a viable short to intermediate range defensive weapon that`s been 100% reliable. What more could you ask for?
    Koroner likes this.
  12. WestKentucky

    WestKentucky Member

    Feb 1, 2014
    Middle Tn
    I see these guns kinda like the modern equivalent (but much better built) of the tec9 or anything made by masterpiece arms. Looks really cool, but not super functional. With a brace they would be awesome, but without they are kinda wonky.
  13. doubleh

    doubleh Member

    Feb 14, 2007
    NM-south of I-40
    They have absolutely no appeal to me.
    ontarget likes this.
  14. MAKster

    MAKster Member

    Jul 8, 2006
    95 percent of the people who buy those types of “pistols” or “firearms” attach a brace.
  15. tkopp

    tkopp Member

    Apr 30, 2009
    I have a Draco. I tried for years to use it safely with a sling and forward pressure, but eventually decided it was too easy to accidentally double (grip tightening under recoil) and without a stock the muzzle jittered well away from my target while I was riding recoil. It was unsafe. I put an 'arm brace' on it, and if that' ever made illegal it will either need to be SBR'ed or sold.

    That said, I also picked up an Inland 30 carbine pistol and hold it only at the grip without a sling. It's heavy and soft-shooting enough that, aside from fatigue from holding that darned thing up, it's a lot of fun to use as an overgrown terminator-looking pistol.
  16. ancientnoob

    ancientnoob Member

    Jul 29, 2017
    The appeal is in the socialist republic of Connecticut I cannot own one as a ordinary person. Enjoy your freedom.
    dodo bird likes this.
  17. psyopspec

    psyopspec Member

    Sep 28, 2004
    Cape Cod
    I could see something like that being useful if one spent a lot of time in and around vehicles. If I drove for a living I might consider it.
  18. hemiram

    hemiram Member

    Dec 29, 2006
    Toledo, Ohio
    If the Kriss wasn't so expensive, and I didn't have a couple of other 9mm Ar-15 type "pistols", I would have one. I shot one once and it was a lot of fun, but not that much fun. If you use the sling you can fire very accurately. ~20 round mags seem to be the best compromise as to handling.
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