Approve my loads for 158 gr RNFP cast .357

[Bullseye]

I took this info from a post by
dprice3844444, Feb 8, 2012 HERE

I changed the shape of the bullet to RNFP ( from LSWC or LRN )
I'm using 158 grain RNFP Xtreme cast lubed
I have Clays Unique, Trail Boss and HP38
( also wish I didn't have WST but I do )
In BOLD below I have what I would load using my best experience with other 158 gr .357 handloads.

I'd like to know ...
Has anyone else loaded any of the BOLD data below or close to that using these bullets for .357?
I want to load up a bunch of cast bullets for target shooting, I don't care to have a cannon load, just want to sharpen up on my revolver skills.

Any red flags here? Same data here on Hodgdon page except no data for Unique.

I'd rather use my Trail Boss up, save my Unique, I can use up the Clays in 45 acp and HP38 is always good for 9mm and 40 S&W so I can hang onto that.

I'd like to get rid of this WST, but I find no data available, and probably for good reason.
Thanks

Clays 3.2 gr. 867
Clays 4.6 gr. 1,079 max
CLAYS 4.0 gr

Unique 6.0 gr. 1,034
Unique 6.8 gr. 1,295 max
UNIQUE 6.2 gr

TrailBoss 3.2 gr. 754
TrailBoss 4.2 gr. 865 max
TRAILBOSS 4.0 gr

HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 796
HP38 & W231 3.9 gr. 846
HP38 & W231 5.0 gr. 1,109 max
HP38 4.6 gr

WST ?

 

[Blue68f100]

You did not mention the intended purpose of these. For general plinking TB will work just fine. W231/HP38 would be my second choice on what you listed. I like 2400 when it comes to shooting lead out of a 357mag. Been my go to for 4 decades.

For your WST, Save it for 45acp 185rg or 200gr LSWC, 12Bh. Load at 4.1 gr with only a thumbnail showing. This is a classic Bullseye Shooting formula that's been used for decades. 4.1 grain behind a 200gr LSWC is a super accurate load for the 50yrd line. Where the same loads work fine with the 185gr at the short 25yrds. Should add this load is below min published. It works fine in my 1911 with a std 16# RS and 19# Hammer spring.

 

[cheygriz]

I don't understand why you would use any of those powders.

In the .357, H110/WW296, AAC#9, H4227 are much more appropriate.

 

[Sunray]

The shape or construction of the bullet makes no difference. One loads according to the weight and cast or jacketed.
However, 6.2 of Unique is .2 over current max for a cast 158. 2/10ths isn't going to matter though. A different powder lot will account for it.
WST is very close to Trail Boss(#20 vs #21) on the Burn Rate chart. Probably not tested in .357 for that reason.
"...want to sharpen up on my revolver skills..." Load 148 grain WC's in .357 cases. Unique will do, but Bulseye is your friend.

 

[Bullseye]

Thanks guys
I don't want to buy any more powder. I post these powders because that's what I have on hand, same with the bullets and I want to load up a bunch of cast bullets for target shooting, I don't care to have a cannon load, just want to sharpen up on my revolver skills.
I have no data for Unique but according to my above post. 6.2 is .2 grains over min with 6.8 being max but I do not have a source for that except in the post I refer to from 2-8-12.

 

[RealGun]

I took this info from a post by
dprice3844444, Feb 8, 2012 HERE

I changed the shape of the bullet to RNFP ( from LSWC or LRN )
I'm using 158 grain RNFP Xtreme cast lubed
I have Clays Unique, Trail Boss and HP38
( also wish I didn't have WST but I do )
In BOLD below I have what I would load using my best experience with other 158 gr .357 handloads.

I'd like to know ...
Has anyone else loaded any of the BOLD data below or close to that using these bullets for .357?
I want to load up a bunch of cast bullets for target shooting, I don't care to have a cannon load, just want to sharpen up on my revolver skills.

Any red flags here? Same data here on Hodgdon page except no data for Unique.

I'd rather use my Trail Boss up, save my Unique, I can use up the Clays in 45 acp and HP38 is always good for 9mm and 40 S&W so I can hang onto that.

I'd like to get rid of this WST, but I find no data available, and probably for good reason.
Thanks

Clays 3.2 gr. 867
Clays 4.6 gr. 1,079 max
CLAYS 4.0 gr

Unique 6.0 gr. 1,034
Unique 6.8 gr. 1,295 max
UNIQUE 6.2 gr

TrailBoss 3.2 gr. 754
TrailBoss 4.2 gr. 865 max
TRAILBOSS 4.0 gr

HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 796
HP38 & W231 3.9 gr. 846
HP38 & W231 5.0 gr. 1,109 max
HP38 4.6 gr

WST ?

Some of these overlap the load range for 38 Special in powder company data. You might try working at the top of the range for 38 Special, which includes WST.

 

[Walkalong]

WST is great for leisurely velocities with a 158 Gr lead bullet in .357 Mag. IE, the 700/750ish FPS range. I use .357 brass to do this, but it can be accomplished with .38 brass as well. Clays is a bit fast for my taste for this application, but I like for 125 Gr.

W-231 is also a good choice.

 

[kcofohio]

Bullseye, the WST is also good for target loads in the 45 Auto.

Other than that, of the powders you listed, I have only used HP-38/W231 in 357. 5.0 gr. behind a MBC 158 gr. SWC is a good target load, for me. Mild recoil in a Model 65 K-Frame.

 

[Bullseye]

I see that the HP38 load I had picked is exactly the same on Hodgdon for 38 SPL+P at 4.6 gr but that is for a 158 gr Hornady XTP. I would imagine that this being a .357 I would be fine at that and can expect a decent round nearing 1000 fps. I think I'll go with 4.5 gr HP38 for one load.

There's no WST .357 or 38 spl+P load data on Hodgdon but since I want to use this stuff up, I think I can safely go with the max load in .357 cases here for the 38 spl data at 3.7 gr WST
There's no point in going any higher since I do want to do some " leisurely " shooting.

View attachment 226437

Then there's the Trail Boss ... I'm going to load up the 4.0 gr Trailboss as planned.
I'll probably make up 50 of each and see how they go. I have 500 brass and 500 of these bullets on hand.
I will give a report. These will get shot from a couple/few different revolvers.
I don't see any issues here for unsafe loads.

 

[Walkalong]

3.8 Grs of WST and an X-Treme158 Gr SWC gives me about 700 FPS from a 4" 586 in .357 Mag brass.

Trail Boss did not play well with plated. It loves lead though.

 

[243winxb]

UNIQUE 6.2 gr

With my cast 158 gr lswc in 357 mag.

In 38 special 5.2 Unique.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

I show very good to excellent results with any load of Unique, 4.5 to 6.0 gr.
HP38 did not do well in my guns.
Trailboss 3.2 OR 3.6 gr., very good

 

[Bullseye]

I've loaded up 100 Trail Boss 4.0 gr with confidence.
Next will be 100 WST 3.7 gr or maybe try 3.8 cause it works for Walkalong.
TEN HUTT!
View attachment 226449

 

[Steve C]

From the X-Treeme website: our Cowboy lead bullets are approximately 15 on Brinell.

The bullets you have are relatively hard and will work fine with faster powders and moderate .357 mag loads. I have shot a lot of .357 158gr LSWC's using 6.2 to 6.5 grs of Unique.

With W231 I load .38 spl +P's using 158gr bullets and 4.7 grs of powder from the Winchester data 2o02.

TrailBos and Clays are very fast powders both being OK for low velocity Cowboy or .38 spl equivalent loads in the .357 mag.

Never have used WST.

 

[Bullseye]

I just got done making up 50 4.8 gr HP38 158 gr RNFP. I see right on the bottle that it can be loaded up for .357 but I stuck with a load that is just a poof above 38 spl +P.
I did not like working with that stuff. So I an off now to make up 50 with 3.7 gr WST.

 

[Bullseye]

So far I have loaded
100 Trail Boss 4.0 gr
50 HP38 4.8 gr
50 3.7 gr WST
100 6.2 Unique
0 Clays ( I still might make up 50 )

I have a couple hundred bullets and primed brass left and I am going to stop for now.
I do have some other 158 gr JHP I might load up 100 with some more serious .357 data ... ta have.
I will give a range report of some kind with some target pictures next time I get up the range on how these RNFP bullets worked out for target practice.

 

[eldon519]

The shape or construction of the bullet makes no difference. One loads according to the weight and cast or jacketed.

That isn't really true. Bullet shape and crimp groove affect COL and seating depth. Bullet shape can also affect bearing surface. Both the bearing surface and seating depth can affect pressure.

 

[midland man]

I used to load 357 mag with 158gr lead bullets and I loaded them with 7grs greendot powder works very well!! give that one a try sometime and it dosent blow your ears out like other powders!

 

[forrest r]

You are actually missing out on some excellent loads/powders.

4.0gr to 4.5gr of trail boss and any 158gr/160gr swc. rn, fn, wfn
4.0gr to 4.5gr clays and any 158gr/160gr swc, rn,rnfp,fn,wfn
4.5gr to 5.0gr wst and any 158gr/160gr swc, rn, rnfp, fn,wfn

You will find those powders you asked about in the "cowboy action" sections of the reloading manuals.

FWIW:
Clays and wst are excellent powders for light/target loads in the 357's. They don't use a lot of powder per pull of the trigger, burn clean and are not as position sensitive as unique and hp-38. Trail boss is impressive with it's consistency from shot to shot,.as is the clays & wst. Those 3 powders are known for their:
Light shooting soft loads.
Known powders and used a lot in the pistol/target shooting world.

Awhile back (last year) I bought a new 686 and wanted to find some "plinking" loads for it. I cast my own bullets and have axis to free lead.So I nailed down a couple of 38spl loads.using 1 of my favorite bullets, a 158gr mihec hp testing 6-shot groups @ 50ft. I'm burning up all the bullseye and international clays I have on these 38spl loads. When those 2 powders are gone, I will not be buying anymore. 3.0gr of clays will shoot the same bugholes as the 2 loads pictured below. The difference between the 3 loads is nothing on paper and around 2,000 more loads from a #8 jug of powder. 2,000 pulls of the trigger for free, nice!!!


So I moved on to some 357 plinking loads. Kept getting 5 shot in and 1 out. Typically that's a sign that there is 1 bad chamber in the cylinder. So I started paying attention to the shots/cylinder orientation and found that the fliers were random. The other thing was no matter what I tried, I never really got any good groups. They kept looking like these, Note that the 2 4.5gr targets in the background/bottom of the pile are 4.5gr of clays and 4.5gr of trail boss pushing a 150gr swc.


Or these, 5.5gr of tb with a 110gr wc (left) & 4.0gr of tb with a 158gr swc (right).


Started digging around and took a good look at my 357 cases. They were a mess!!! Had 1x cases mixed in with range pickups and cases that were so worn/used that they had no resistance when belling them. Ended up going threw those 357 cases and tossing 90%+ of them and ordered 2,000 new cases from starline. The groups tightened up to bug holes.

Of the powders you listed, I still keep unique around simply because I've used so much of it in multiple calibers over the decades I'll use unique loads as a baseline to measure other powder/bullet combo's by. Can't remember the last time I've even bought/used hp-38 or ww231. I get cleaner burning and more accurate loads from wst when I use/burn the same amount of powder. And clays is just as accurate and less powder per pull of the trigger than hp-38. These are the main powders I use anymore for plinking/target work/range time. bought #16 of clays, #5 of trail boss & #4 of american select last year to feed anything from the 38spl to the 45acp.


I'd be giving wst, tb & clays are real hard look. IMHO, they are the best powders of the bunch

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I just got done making up 50 4.8 gr HP38 158 gr RNFP. I see right on the bottle that it can be loaded up for .357 but I stuck with a load that is just a poof above 38 spl +P.
I did not like working with that stuff. So I an off now to make up 50 with 3.7 gr WST.

What in the world did you dislike about HP-38? W231/HP-38 meters like water, allows for consistent powder drops and what you shoot them you will see how accurate the ammo is.

One of my two favorite .38 Special loads is 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC bullet.

 

[RealGun]

What in the world did you dislike about HP-38? W231/HP-38 meters like water, allows for consistent powder drops and what you shoot them you will see how accurate the ammo is.

One of my two favorite .38 Special loads is 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr LSWC bullet.

Using an HP-38 load in the same range with 125 gr bullets makes a good practice round for my ultralight snub.

 

[Bullseye]

I appreciate the work you did in posting forrest r.

You are actually missing out on some excellent loads/powders.

4.0gr to 4.5gr of trail boss and any 158gr/160gr swc. rn, fn, wfn
4.0gr to 4.5gr clays and any 158gr/160gr swc, rn,rnfp,fn,wfn
4.5gr to 5.0gr wst and any 158gr/160gr swc, rn, rnfp, fn,wfn

I did have plans on using up my Clays and now I will today.
I was going to go with 4.0 but I am going to go right down the middle will load up 4.3 gr Clays.

I did load up some pretty stout cartridges here using Unique from further investigation.
Those 100 cartridges are not going to be used in this range session. They are .2 gr over afterall.
I normally stay away from max loads in .357 so I am a little nervous now about that batch.
These are not going to be tested in my S&W revolvers, I can say that much.

I apologize for ignoring this post and doing my own thinking from Sunray

6.2 of Unique is .2 over current max for a cast 158. 2/10ths isn't going to matter though. A different powder lot will account for it.

These are hard cast bullets from X-treme
Home > Hard Cast Lead Bullets >

38-158gr. RNFP Cowboy
Quantity of 500
Diameter: 358

The post I went with is going to produce some completely out of the league cartridges for this range session that I quote and found in the first post up top from dprice3844444.

158 grain LSWC or LRN (Semi-Wad Cutter or Round Nose)
(I don't recommend lead at over 950 FPS unless hard cast)
(unless at least using a Gas Check or copper plated)
Bullseye 4.8 gr. 939 max with plain lead bullet
Bullseye 5.8 gr. 1,102 FPS MAX
Clays 3.2 gr. 867
Clays 4.6 gr. 1,079 max
Unique 6.0 gr. 1,034
Unique 6.8 gr. 1,295 max
Universal 4.0 gr. 890
Universal 6.2 gr. 1,247 max
Universal 6.7 gr. 1,297 max +P
PowerPistol 7.4 gr. 963
TrailBoss 3.2 gr. 754
TrailBoss 4.2 gr. 865 max
Titegroup 4.5 gr. 1,028
Titegroup 5.0 gr. 1,108 max
No. 2 5.8 gr. 1,074
No. 5 8.2 gr. 1,239
No. 5 8.0 gr. 1,100
No. 5 9.0 gr. 1,220 max
No. 7 9.1 gr. 1,041 start
No. 7 10.1 gr. 1,183 max
No. 9 11.2 gr. 1,104
No. 9 12.4 gr. 1,255 max
HP38 & W231 3.9 gr. 846
HP38 & W231 3.4 gr. 796
HP38 & W231 5.0 gr. 1,109 max
2400 14.5 gr. 1,178 good load
2400 14.9 gr. 1,232 near max
231 6.7 gr. 1,275 +P max
231 6.1 gr. 1,075 (plated, actual in 7" bbl revolver)
296* 14.5 gr. 1,560 * use magnum primers
ZIP 6.3 gr. 1,176
ZIP 7.0 gr. 1,307 max
True Blue 8.8 gr. 1,176
True Blue 9.8 gr. 1,307 max
(Enforcer load below is SWC + GC )
Enforcer 13.5 gr. 1,295 Hi=1360, Lo=1249, ES=110

Well, that's my concern. I am going to post a conversation to dprice3844444 and see if he might set me at ease before I pull a trigger on these 6.2 gr Unique 158 gr Xtreme RNFP bullets I loaded.

 

[Bullseye]

apparently dprice3844444 is no longer a member here.

 

[1KPerDay]

send me your WST if you don't want it... I buy it in 8 lb jugs now.

 

[RealGun]

I appreciate the work you did in posting.



I did have plans on using up my Clays and now I will today.
I was going to go with 4.0 but I am going to go right down the middle will load up 4.3 gr Clays.

I did load up some pretty stout cartridges here using Unique from further investigation.
Those 100 cartridges are not going to be used in this range session. They are .2 gr over afterall.
I normally stay away from max loads in .357 so I am a little nervous now about that batch.
These are not going to be tested in my S&W revolvers, I can say that much.

I apologize for ignoring this post and doing my own thinking from Sunray


These are hard cast bullets from X-treme
Home > Hard Cast Lead Bullets >

38-158gr. RNFP Cowboy
Quantity of 500
Diameter: 358

The post I went with is going to produce some completely out of the league cartridges for this range session that I quote and found in the first post up top from dprice3844444.



Well, that's my concern. I am going to post a conversation to dprice3844444 and see if he might set me at ease before I pull a trigger on these 6.2 gr Unique 158 gr Xtreme RNFP bullets I loaded.

I found (in Lee) the 6.2 gr Unique with 158 gr lead to be the minimum load for 357, not the max. It would seem only a problem if you want the 357s to shoot like 38s. But the velocity listed at 6.2 gr is 1188, which would be pushing a softer alloy pretty hard. The max of 6.8 is rated at 1295 fps. I would conclude that you are certainly not going to blow up a gun or hurt yourself with the 6.2 load. Just hang on and fire away.