AR’s kind of suck, now let’s fight for it!

[Gordon]

any firearm is "dangerous" so it is an oxymoron. And it takes the supreme court to figure that out ? The system is broken

 

[Gordon]

And then, and happening now in california , any rifle with a scope is "scary" and a "deadly sniper rifle" . Then the Model 94s will be : "dangerous throwback to racist society rugged macho image " guns. It will never end !! Even Biden's Elmer Fudd guns are dangerous and eventually as in other socialist countries OUTLAWED !

 

[Rodentman]

I do not believe that AR's "kind of" suck, or suck to any other degree.

 

[Gordon]

I moved my dozen registered in California in 1999 asshalt rifles out of Calif. along with my truck load of reloading equiptment an supplies to my Oregon address, I now stay there may thru October thus have I become an Oregon resident (turned in my Calif drivers license and registered cars and trailers there ) , I recently applied for CCW , which I will get by May . Life is good. keeping my house in Calif. for November thru April and renting the house my son lived in before fore he moved to Oregon . Maybe this will take me up to my passing , without seeing the collapse of sanity. I am selling my huge collection of rifles , pistols and shot guns on Gunbroker over the next couple years . I am only keeping a few that I can and will use the rest of my life, and those are not the valuable ones The kids all got theirs, that live in free States. Now is not the time to sell "assault weapons" IMHO, should wait until bans are in effect and the prices climb ! If they ban possesion then they will be really valuable

 

[Armored farmer]

I am selling my huge collection of rifles , pistols and shot guns on Gunbroker over the next couple years .

I am curious if you would offer them on thr?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

any firearm is "dangerous" so it is an oxymoron. And it takes the supreme court to figure that out ? The system is broken

I believe it was Charlie Miller, a Texas Ranger captain, who was at the range to qualify, with an M1911 stuffed in his waist band, and the grip safety tied down with a rawhide thong.

The Range Master looked at him and said, "Capn'? Isn't that . . . dangerous?"

And Charlie said, "Hail yeah! I wouldn't carry the danged ol' thang if it weren't dangerous."

 

[ACES&8S]

For sometime I’ve wanted to explain why we all need to fight for the AR-15, we need to really fight the anti’s on the stigma they have assigned to the AR. I’ll ask everyone to please read the entire post, and I ask specifically because I think I’m going to tick off almost everyone at some point but I have a reason for doing so.

First I will say, I don’t really like the AR-15. I have owned three, sold two of them and the third sits in my safe and has probably been shot less than 50 times. It’s just not my cup of tea, many of the things others like about it are why I don’t like it..
Low recoil, I’m grown and I like to know when it fires.
It’s Light, that’s right I feel like a child playing with a $10 China made toy and I like real guns not toys.
The caliber just sucks for anything I use a gun for, if all .223 ceased to exist I would sleep just fine tonight.
It’s versatile, true its the jack of all trades, but the master of none. Every time I need a rifle for something The AR always stays in the safe because their is always a better option for the situation.
Their are only 2 reasons I own one, the main reason is because it’s a bit of a statement simply to own an AR-15 in this day an age, the other reason is simply because I get tired of explaining to coworkers who see me as “the gun guy” why I don’t own one, this is rural Alabama everybody owns one. Nevertheless, It is my opinion that the AR-15 is quiet simply the most overrated gun ever manufactured.

Now, I had a reason for going into a little detail about my opinion of the AR. I want it to clear I am not just an AR fan boy, quiet the opposite. I want people in the boat with me to pay the closest attention. It’s easy for people to care less about things that don’t affect them as much. For instance a 10% company wide pay cut want bother you as much if your the only exempt person in the company, that’s just human nature. So anyway, if your not an AR fan this is for you.


The anti’s favorite gun to hate is the AR, it looks scary, it shoots fast, mass shooters give them plenty of fodder. For the average anti gun, or even uneducated “don’t really care” people It is seen as the easiest to gun build a case against. As a result it’s the main (not only) attack point for every assault weapons ban from the federal legislation to several states. It is the gun the media reference every time they want to try to bring up a scary gun. It’s the gun anti politicians mention every time they get in front of a camera. It’s the “weapon of war” it is so to speak the tip of the spear.


All that leads to the point where I get say, as usual their wrong, the AR-15 properly understood is going to be the hardest rifle to ban, ever. They can’t say it’s not good for self defense, their are to many documented cases of it being used, Stephen Willeford comes to mind right off the bat!
They can’t say it’s not a hunting rifle, I personally know many, many people that hunt everything from deer to coyote to beaver. Literally hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people hunt with a AR style rifle, so much so that many companies market their AR’s specifically to hunters, Remington comes to mind.
They can’t say it’s not a sport rifle, it’s used in more shooting contest and matches than any other rifle in the world. (My speculation, but I’d bet the farm on it) Even if I’m wrong, it’s still one of the most popular in the competition community.
It is the most popular rifle In the US, hands down. More people own a AR than any other gun. As much as I love a Garand, the AR really is America’s rifle.

And as a result, I argue, (now listen you who don’t like AR’s) the AR will be the absolute hardest to get, if they can get the AR-15 banned on a federal level then they have gotten the most popular gun in America banned... think about that for a second. They will have have one of the most popular (if not the most popular) hunting rifles banned, again... think about that...

I submit to you, if they can get the AR-15 banned it will be, in the long term, the first domino. The rest will be easier to get than most popular, sounds reasonable right?

So you non-AR guy and gals, if you want to protect your revolvers, your M1 Garand, your hunting rifles, or your pump shot guns. The absolute best, the easiest thing you can do is fight harder for the right to own an AR-15 than you would for any other gun you own, get off your selfish butt’s and fight for the soldiers on the front line, or when they’re gone you’ll be there and you want have help. Hold up the AR-15, and defend it to the bitter end, even... especially, if you don’t even like it!



Ok, I feel better now, I’ve been wanting to get that off my chest but I’ve been lazy. Knew it’d be long post.

Well said my friend.
But it sounds like the preacher got fussed at.
Seems this is one of those cases where preaching to the choir has brought on a lot of
photo bombing! I know I didn't miss your point & like I started, well said. I believe what brought the photo bombing
is the title of the thread, everything else expressed your interest in firearms & your desire to protect your freedoms.
If there were no AR weapons or semi anything the soft people of the world would be after our revolvers.
Don't let ---fellowship--- like this get you down, glad to have you on our side.
You might have sent an even better letter to your local Rep. as far as I know.

 

[Gordon]

I am curious if you would offer them on thr?

most certainly some will go there in the proper forum.

 

[mokin]

“Your wife is ugly and her cooking sucks, but hey, I support your right to marry her...”

That's funny! and not unrelated to this thread. There's often more substance to something than is readily apparent.

Gun control is not about guns...

The "Gun Culture" is about a lot more than guns.

 

[Newtosavage]

The "Gun Culture" is about a lot more than guns.

You can say that again.

 

[cdb1]

The point the OP is trying to make I believe is that if AR’s get banned it will open the floodgates for the banning of other types of firearms. That this is our Waterloo. That we need to draw a line in the sand on the AR issue, not give an inch and push back with everything we have that is legal.

Because if an AR ban goes into effect the dominoes will start falling at exponential rates. I happen to believe he is correct.

By stating his personal feelings about AR’s he was emphasizing how important it is for them not to be banned, not the other way around. He doesn’t care one whit about ARs and if they weren’t available it wouldn’t bother him in the least. Even though he feels that way he also believes banning ARs would be the absolute worst thing that could happen regarding 2nd Amendment freedom.

I agree. I used to be okay with a waiting period on firearm purchases. If I had to wait ten days to get a firearm no big deal. After reading the rhetoric of gun control advocates I realized I was wrong because of the give an inch, take a mile mindset. If an AR ban is passed it won’t be giving an inch, it will give up so much territory it will be impossible to ever get it back.

Instead of nitpicking particulars of the OP’s opinions about AR’s try instead to glean the overall point he is trying to make.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I don’t care about minis, bolt guns, wheel guns, single shot and side by Side shotguns and a bunch of other types of guns. My own interests are self defense, practical shooting and three gun. But unlike some who who hunt, or see their own subset and are willing to give away what I like because “no one needs”, I’m not willing to give an inch. In fact, I think we should stop playing defense and go on the offense.

Yes I “need” my AR. As I recovered from having my classroom shot up, going to the range helped me deal with the PTSD and loud noises triggering me. Putting together another AR helped me find something to look forward to when I was feeling down. It also helped me make some great friends.

I’m sure our enemies and those who would sell us out, don’t care that a little boy got a big box of cookies because his dad helped me with my AR. To them the AR is evil, they don’t get to us, it’s a bonding agent. Something that brought about a friendship. Something that helped strangers several states apart get to know each other.

My former coworker who was on the other side of my building is working hard to eliminate the 2nd Amendment. A former friend who’s a vegetarian and hates hunting is working hard to “stop the slaughter” of deer and outlaw hunting and hunting rifles. To think they’re going to stop is naive and underestimating the ENEMY. To them it’s personal and we’re evil. They don’t care what we think, about our rights or anything but getting their way. And they’ll lie and use any tactic to “win”.

Now I’m not saying we should use the same tactics. In fact we shouldn’t. But we do need to come together and we all need to step it up. As we’ve seen, our enemies are multiplying and they have the media with them. So I don’t care if someone has a mini, a black powder gun, or whatever. We all need to come together.

Oh and the environmental extremists that I meet while taking classes want the black powder guns banned. They’re against the smoke and pollution in the air. So yes, if we give in anywhere we’re doomed.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Yes I “need” my AR. As I recovered from having my classroom shot up, going to the range helped me deal with the PTSD and loud noises triggering me. Putting together another AR helped me find something to look forward to when I was feeling down. It also helped me make some great friends.

I "need" my AR like I "need" to vote, to read a newspaper, or to attend the church of my choice. In other words, to exercise my civil rights.

 

[Danoobie]

IMO, what is "needed" is for the 2A to be recognized, and all the NFAs to be repealed.

Folks keep going on and on about things like "national reciprocity". Last time I checked, only 8 states don't recognize the average
CCW permit. States like that won't embrace a national reciprocity law. They will simply build a bunch of difficult gun laws around it.

Gun owners need to stop being such a bunch of cheapskates. If everybody would use the money it takes to buy 2 boxes of ammo, and join the NRA,
the NRA would be 140 MILLION strong, and impossible to ignore. It's amazing, folks throw thousands of dollars around, to get the basic gun, but then when it's time to improve the
accuracy of the gun, or get a holster to comfortably carry the gun, or improve the societal atmosphere surrounding guns, they get all
''budget", and stingy.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

IMO, what is "needed" is for the 2A to be recognized, and all the NFAs to be repealed.

Folks keep going on and on about things like "national reciprocity". Last time I checked, only 8 states don't recognize the average
CCW permit. States like that won't embrace a national reciprocity law. They will simply build a bunch of difficult gun laws around it.

Gun owners need to stop being such a bunch of cheapskates. If everybody would use the money it takes to buy 2 boxes of ammo, and join the NRA,
the NRA would be 140 MILLION strong, and impossible to ignore. It's amazing, folks throw thousands of dollars around, to get the basic gun, but then when it's time to improve the
accuracy of the gun, or get a holster to comfortably carry the gun, or improve the societal atmosphere surrounding guns, they get all
''budget", and stingy.

I rejoined the NRA last year. This year I upgraded my membership to life member. I’m also joining GOA. And possibly another group or two.

So I’m with you, in fact I tell people who aren’t members to join and if they are members to take advantage of the “easy pay” and discounted prices on Life Membership.

Since becoming a Life Member, I take joy being able to say, I’m not just an NRA member but a Life Member! It really annoys the anti gun crowd!

 

[kcofohio]

Someone posted that the antis say the the 2A only covers muzzles loaders, as that was what they had back then.

Well, do away with CNN, MSNBC, NYT, etc. They have no rights. The freedom of speech/press back then was a manual "press", not digital media. Town hall and town squares is the place for free speech from their own illogical logic.

 

[doubleh]

No, they don't suck. Not in my opinion anyway. I'm certainly no fanatic about them and only own one and it does the job I rigged it up for very well. It's to centerfire rifles what the 10/22 is to rimfires. There are tons of after market parts to easily turn eiither into exactly what you want it to be.

 

[bluejeans]

Good banter here... I enjoy gleaning more pro 2a arguments..
Sadly some seem obsessed with defending the merits of the ar platform makes me wonder if they read the whole OP to know that’s not the point

 

[cdb1]

In fact, I think we should stop playing defense and go on the offense.

That is exactly what I meant when I stated “That we need to draw a line in the sand on the AR issue, not give an inch and push back with everything we have that is legal.”

I’m not into AR’s but it doesn’t matter. This is much more important

 

[P5 Guy]

Eugene Stoner developed the modern musket for the modern Minuteman. Lets all go to the nearest range on April 19th and fire shots heard 'round the world.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

I agree that the Founding Fathers had then-current military weapons in mind when they wrote 2A. By extrapolation, that means we should be allowed to carry modern military weapons. A full-auto AK would be nice.

 

[rizbunk77]

THIS is something we need to really jump on. This is based on the idea that single shot, muzzle loading muskets were the only known firearm technology at the time. Wrong.

1. Lorenzoni lever action, multi shot flintlocks had been around since 1660.
2. Cookson repeater, an updated design that was safe to use was manufactured and sold in Boston in 1756.
3. The Puckle gun was a multi shot, magazine fed flintlock long arm demonstrated to the British Navy in 1722.
4. The Girandoni repeating rifle was developed in 1780, used by the Austrian army by 1790 and by Lewis and Clark in 1804.

The 2nd Amendment was ratified 1791. Muskets were far from the only technology known at the time. The more advanced technology was not more commonly used due to the expense given the manufacturing methods at the time.

This is all great information. It also has zero relevance as to when you may or may not lose your legal right to have an AR15.
Simple fact is you get about two more mass school shootings, the political will and also the youth movement will be great enough that you will lose your AR15 and maybe more. So the only real and relevant discussion is preventing the next school shooting.
Dont underestimate the youth ground swell. Once upon a time a youth movement ended a war and impacted society for a good 23 yrs. before age, and greed got things back "on track".

 

[Swifty Morgan]

The last "youth ground swell" was fueled by a huge hump in the population known as the Baby Boom. We don't have that now. America is aging, thank God. The median age is 10 years higher than it was during the revolting hog wallow of selfishness and sin known as the Sixties.

The hysteria from mass shootings is intense, but it never lasts.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The last "youth ground swell" was fueled by a huge hump in the population known as the Baby Boom. We don't have that now. America is aging, thank God. The median age is 10 years higher than it was during the revolting hog wallow of selfishness and sin known as the Sixties.

The hysteria from mass shootings is intense, but it never lasts.

Yeah -- they may be as ignorant and arrogant as those punks of the '60s and '70s, but there aren't as may of them.

 

[plinky]

This is all great information. It also has zero relevance as to when you may or may not lose your legal right to have an AR15.
Simple fact is you get about two more mass school shootings, the political will and also the youth movement will be great enough that you will lose your AR15 and maybe more. So the only real and relevant discussion is preventing the next school shooting.
Dont underestimate the youth ground swell. Once upon a time a youth movement ended a war and impacted society for a good 23 yrs. before age, and greed got things back "on track".

This largely sums up our problems. Facts and principles are now overruled by an emotional stampede to "do something", usually something that is symbolic at best and often something that is completely unrelated to the crisis. Our opposition cannot debate their way through a tissue. Their main tactic is shouting over adults and repeating (appropriately) childish slogans.

Two more mass shootings equal a few days worth of murders in Chicago and should really only spell out the reality that in a free country, freedoms can be abused and that we can't let those who have abused (or threatened to abuse) their freedom continue to do so. Our Constitution was not written for the lowest common denominator.

The fact that the GOP has nearly total control of the federal government and we still have to jump in fear every time someone misuses a gun is rather disturbing.