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AR-10 Extraction problems.

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing and Repairs' started by tote4570, May 18, 2013.

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  1. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    My buddy has a Bushmaster AR-10. It shot great but left dents in the brass. It was sent off to Bushmaster and returned doing the same thing. A local gunsmith worked on it and said he did a headspace job. The dents are gone out of the brass now, but the gun stovepipes every 2nd or 3rd round. We have tried different magazines and different ammo. The gun and bolt have been cleaned.

    He called the local smith back about the extraction problems and instead of taking another look he told us to get a new extractor spring. I am hunting down a spring now but was wondering if anyone knew any other possible causes of this. Again, It functioned properly before ever being worked on and just left dents in the brass.
     
  2. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Stove piping typically isn't a extraction failure, it's a ejection failure.

    Strip and clean the bolt, paying special attention to the ejector. If it still stove pipes I'd try replacing the ejector and spring.

    It's possible that the extractor is losing control of the case before it's ejected. You can also try a new spring and add a o-ring for increased tension.

    What length of barrel and gas system does this rifle have?

    BSW
     
  3. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    I believe the barrel is 16"
     
  4. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Short handguard?

    BSW
     
  5. mtrmn

    mtrmn Member

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    ALL my AR types leave dents in the brass. I can apply a piece of self-adhesive velcro (the fuzzy half) to the brass deflector and the dents go away. But I usually don't worry about it. I'd rather have damaged waste products than a constipated weapon. Maybe he needs to undo whatever he did. IF it's undoable....

    Just what would a "headspace job" consist of anyway? AFAIK headspace is pretty much fixed on an AR once the barrel extension (the back end of the barrel with the locking lugs) is installed.

    I reload all my ammo and I don't concern myself with dented brass, unless it's REAL bad. If the dent doesn't fix itself in the resizing die, it will go away when I shoot it the next time....and the gun will replace the old dent with a new one. To me it signifies good, violent and positive extraction/ejection--a very good thing compared to your present problem.
     
  6. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    It has a full length Daniel defense hand guard.

    The local smith referred to a heads pacing job as shaving a little off of one side of the bolt.

    We are planning on getting a new spring first.
     
  7. SilentScream

    SilentScream Member

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    Your best bet I think now is to take that compromised bolt to the nearest river/lake/ocean and sling it out as far as you can. Get a new bolt and rock on.
     
  8. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Don't use that bolt any more. The bolt should be made from hardened steel and then shot peened. Shot peening is critical as it leaves a compressed 'skin' of steel that resists crack formation. Crack formation is why ARs loose locking lugs from their bolts and break.

    I'd also find a new 'smith'.

    BSW
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    +3

    NO so called gunsmith would 'shave off' the bolt to do a so called 'headspace job' that had nothing at all in the world to do with dented brass in the first place.

    Your bolt is toast now.

    Denting cases is the way AR-15's and AR-10's work.
    They eject violently, and bounce of the receiver or brass deflector going like a raped ape when they hit it.

    Fuhgeddaboudit.
    That was never a problem with headspace, or anything else.

    But now you need a new bolt, if not a new barrel if he ran his dull chamber reamer in it and ruined it too.

    Your been had my friend.

    rc
     
  10. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    To be truthful, the having pretty much started with the purchase of a Bushmaster.

    If there's a buck to be made cutting a corner, Bushmaster will cut it.

    BSW
     
  11. mtrmn

    mtrmn Member

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    To be fair, the gun DID work as designed until someone besides BM "fixed" a problem that never existed in the first place.
    We've all collectively done quite well in troubleshooting the OP's problem without any unnecessary brand-bashing.
     
  12. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. We are going to get a new bolt and try and see if the "smith" will make it right.
     
  13. mtrmn

    mtrmn Member

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    As long as the smith only messed with the bolt, your new one SHOULD be a drop-in replacement. If he did any thing with the barrel or locking lugs, have SOMEBODY ELSE who knows what they are doing with AR's to check your headspace when you get the new bolt.
     
  14. dvdcrr

    dvdcrr member

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    Stovepipe may come from misalignment of gas block and barrel gas port. Did the smith mess with that.
     
  15. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    check the face of the extractor for any burrs,stone if needed.my personal experience when buying new ar types,is first to install those new extractor spring upgrade kits.usually eliminates any problems
     
  16. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    deleted for bad link
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  17. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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  18. henschman

    henschman Member

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    Nah, they cut a lot less corners with their .308s than DPMS does.
     
  19. jpwilly

    jpwilly Member

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    Really, what proof of this do you offer?
     
  20. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    Can anyone tell anything from these pics? He is hoping that maybe the extractor could just be replaced.
     
  21. JPG19

    JPG19 Member

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    I'm far from an expert, but I don't see any area on that bolt that has been "shaved off"?
     
  22. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Back side of locking lugs?

    Doing that would change headspace.

    BSW
     
  23. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    I don't have the bolt with me right now but I'll look later.
    Also, it's a stovepipe and double feed all at once. The new round is ruined after the malfunction.
    The rifle only has a round count of 200-250.
     
  24. mtrmn

    mtrmn Member

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    The gun worked fine at first but was sent back to the mfg to correct a PERCEIVED problem that really was a non-issue.
    The mfg recognized the gun's operation as being correct and returned the gun to the owner. The owner then unwittingly verified that the gun was still operating correctly even though the he was still under the impression there was a problem.
    The owner then took the gun to a "smith" and managed to convince him that the gun had a problem even though all along it was operating as designed.
    The smith then performs alterations to the gun which caused the gun to have an actual malfunction from that time forward. All this in an attempt to fix a problem that never existed in the first place.

    I think we can agree the above chain of events is fairly correct. So the point where the gun actually started to malfunction was when the smith worked on it.

    If I were tasked with returning this gun to proper operation, I would START by reversing the actions of the smith. IF the bolt shaving story is true and nothing else was altered, I would replace the entire bolt assembly as the first step to healing.
     
  25. tote4570

    tote4570 Member

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    My friend called the "smith" today. He now claims that he didn't shave anything off the bolt, but that he held the bolt so the "gears"(locking lugs) were even and then he "adjusted the upper and lower".
    We will send the rifle back to BM and let them fix it.
     
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