Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by .zerocool., Feb 5, 2011.
You are all wrong,
The best upgrade to an AR is to stick some ammo in it.
You come off sounding like a 16-year old trying to give everybody advice based on your custom airsoft gun. I don't know where you are getting your knowledge, so what is your experience with the AR? Until you prove otherwise, you give the impression of a mall-ninja poser based on what I've seen you post in other threads.
Your logic and suggestions are flawed in more than one area.
How do you figure the carbine buffer tube is weak due to leverage? How do you figure NC Star is good to go over an ACOG or Aimpoint? NC Star is JUNK. Not even worth putting on an airsoft gun. You get what you pay for with optics. The KNS anti-rotation pins are unnecessary on any properly built AR.
The Accu-wedge is not recommended by serious users in any rifle used in any serious capacity. They have been known to come apart in the lower. A sloppy fit between upper and lower is not going to affect accuracy, your barrel and sights are all solidly affixed to each other on the upper.
This is so absurd I'm not even going there. Do your homework for mil-spec AR-15s. I can trust a stock Colt 6920 with my life. A 6920 with good ammo and good mags will run circles around your AR-57. You will not have a problem buying quality, such as a BCM or Colt AR-15. There are qualities and specifications about these rifles that Bushmaster, DPMS, RRA, and many others cannot meet at their price point and that is why there are serious, hard-use AR-15s and then there are recreational guns.
Yes, quality and cost matters. There is a reason Colt, LMT, Noveske, KAC, and a few others are considered good-to-go when it counts versus brands like Bushmaster. If quality and cost didn't matter nobody would shell out $2K for a KAC or a Noveske. You said a 500-dollar Bushmaster works the same so I guess I shouldn't waste my money on a KAC SR-15E3.
Through my experience shooting the AR as a civilian and in the military I have found the best add-ons are:
-Sturdy weapon light
-Quality optic such as Aimpoint or ACOG (not NC Star, keep that crap in China).
I'm not gonna say which ones somebody should buy because it's all based on preference and as long as you buy quality and you learn how to use it it will make you more effective. The training helps big time in learning how to apply the fundamentals as well as make the most of your add-ons. I use a Geissele SSA trigger, Lancer mags, an ACOG, and a SureFire Scout Light. They work for me. The next guy might use PMags and an Aimpoint. The next guy might have just iron sights and a sling but has attended over a dozen carbine classes. It's not all about hardware.
Based on my experience with the AR-15/M4/M16, I haven't seen the issues that the OP says are normal with the AR family. He is mostly talking out of his rear end. You mention post counts on more than one occasion. I don't even look at other people's post count, I read what they have to say and prefer useful and intelligent information. You are new here. Read more and post less.
My experience with an AR consists of 3 tours in the San Box kicking down doors next to my best friend with a 249.
Reason I said sheared stocks. You think I sheared stocks off looking at my gun. I sheared them off beating down wood and metal doors in search of the "holy one" as some call it.
It's weak due to leverage because of the 1/2 inch gap between the buffer tube and the base of the receiver plate. Then again, most civilians will know about smashing their stock into a door to try and get it open. And no, we don't always use explosives or shotguns to enter doors.
There is also a reason many soldiers in the SF side of things choose AK's over AR's. It's not just for "footprint", it's not just for being anonymous, it's for reliability. I for one dislike many things about the AR. General enlisted soldiers don't get a choice about their gun. But when you do, and your life depends on it, you choose to fix the issues that CAN KILL YOU. Period.
Sure having issues with pin rotation are miniscule to civilians, but when you need your gun to stay alive, you don't want to worry about it. Especially when it's a 20$ upgrade to fix the damn issue. Same with the magpul bolt release. These upgrades are practical, and real. Real results. Like said, until your life depends on your gun, you probably won't think much of it.
And the accuwedge is not reccommended by who. Show me. Hate to break it to you, but some of us don't like rattling, which ultimately gets us killed. NOISE = Death. Sooo being as quiet as possible is the key. Having a custom machinist on hand to fix an issue isn't always feasable.
To add : So last time, unless you play nice, I'm gone. I don't have the time,need or want to dispute with old farts (sorry, not bashing on all, as some of my dads gen are top notch guys) who think they still have it, just because they were ordered to go overseas. We volunteered to go. Try that one on for size.
O and homework on milspec colts... give me a break. I had a colt when I was out of basic. I use LMT based weapons now for the job. I wouldn't rely on a colt if my life depended on it. Pure rubbish.
To add yet again : I run an ar-57 when I'm back at home so I don't punch holes through neighbors houses if I need to defend myself. It's sheer common sense. I'm not using the 5.7 because I think it's the best, I'm using it at home because I don't want to kill more than the guy I'm aiming for. PERIOD. I'll use a .50 beo any day if I wanted max damage. But being I don't want to shoot through 3 houses just to take a guy out, I opt for the 5.7 PISTOL round to defend myself. It penetrates armor well, and won't visit any of the neighbors. No need to bring my likes or dislikes into the convo. My like is the .458 LOTT and .50 beo. Neither of which I would ever bother to own in the city. Heck, I'd probably not even bother to own them in the country being the .458 is the king of big game rounds, and the .50 beo is the king of anti vehicle rounds.
btw, I wouldn't relate to the AF and Baptism by fire any day. The AF see just about as much action as the Army IT guys. Not to diss AF as my high school buddy is an AF MP, but man, they are about as far from real ground combat as Obama is from being experienced with politics. (sorry to bring a political statement into the matter, thought it was a good/funny analogy). I guess it's the same way as an Army Infantry soldier disliking the Marines and so on.
In the military we use tools to gain access into denied areas. The stock of your weapon is not a tool for opening doors, no soldier would treat his weapon, his lifeline, like that. And you are not searching for the holy one. If you were, you wouldn't post about it so much, that only screams POSER!
Another myth that doesn't get old. SOF forces are using AMERICAN weapons.
Trigger/hammer pin rotation has never been an issue with any of the US Government rifles I've looked at.
Another one of your classic jokes. They are not recommended by anybody heading into harm's way and those civilians who know a thing or two about hard use rifles. They can disintegrate in your lower and they offer no real benefit to reliability, only for the pretty fit and finish wall-hangers. If you must have rigidity in this area the JP Tensioning Pin is a better option though the hassle of disassembly negates any benefit.
Also, the sound of the two uppers rattling is negligible. With all the gear worn in the military, many other things will make far greater noise than your receivers wobbling. Multiple pairs of boots moving on the ground is but one example. Your argument here has me convinced you are a ninja. You must wear socks to creep around your enemies. What a day at the office for you huh?
I enlisted years ago, so I'm not just another deer hunting civilian. I don't have to share my military experiences on a public forum just to prove myself. Only posers will repeatedly brag about kicking down doors. That wasn't my job but I respect those who catch bullets for a living and I did carry weapons myself and thankfully never had to use them but I had 100% confidence in my issue M4. The Air Force likes to issue new stuff so no worries there. But repeatedly mentioning that you do all this dirty work just doesn't seem kosher to me, it's like you're trying to say that you are right because you have all this experience (which you don't) and that everybody else is wrong because they are lowly civilians. How did your NC Star hold up while you searched for the 'holy one' and 'yours truly'? Who is the holy one anyways?
I doubt it.
These are the sort of reasons why I doubt it.
And further doubt, from first hand experience. During the years I was assigned to a USASFC unit I worked with team guys from not only the SFG I was assigned to but also teams from every AD and NG SFG except 1st and 10th and nobody used AKs. (To be 100% accurate -- the only guys who I ever worked with who used AKs downrange were a few guys we had detailed out to train allied SOF in their home nation where US troops bringing weapons in country would have been politically unacceptable, so they were equipped with host nation weaponry. Outside that handful of guys, nope -- and definitely no one in Iraq or Afghanistan.)
Due to the nature of my gig in an SF unit and the specific team guys I was assigned to I had routine access to all sorts of foreign weapons and ammo to feed them. If you're properly trained to operate them, there's not much that can beat an M4 for gunfighting, and it's not hard to keep them running.
Never needed them personally and have also never seen pins go walkabout on anyone else's issue M4A1 (or M4 or M16). I've seen all sorts of failures and breakages on them, but never that one.
Again, seen a lot of M4A1s (and M4s and M16s). Never saw one that rattled enough to attract the attention of haji or anyone else. Also never saw that many situations where a rattling M4 was going to attract bad guys' attention over the sounds of vehicles and all the other things present on the battlefield. I figure if guys in Vietnam could survive without accuwedges while playing hide and seek with the bad guys at spitting distance there's just no way even the most dogged out AR can rattle enough to get you shot.
If you want to run off in a huff because people with real experience don't agree with some of your more preposterous statements, it's hard to say your absence will be noticed much or cause for mourning.
As for old guys and all -- I'm not that old, but old enough to remember the last time I ranted about stuff relating to my dad's generation I was probably 16.
No you don't.
I suppose it depends on who you're talking to. I've known some USAF JTACs who had a whole lot more time in a whole lot worse than most USA or USMC infantrymen had seen. Lot of Air Force Security Forces guys saw a lot of bad times during the early days in Iraq, too, when they were outside the wire on convoys, too. (And note: I don't know anyone in the modern joint service world who calls them "AF MPs" -- even my day one Joes fresh from OSUT who can't shut up with their basic training stories usually know that they're "Air Force SF," if only because it's kind of funny . . .)
You haven't heard any insults from this 'old fart', and you won't - but you have indeed given insult here. You show up telling everyone here how great you are and how you have all this specialized knowledge - it's quite insulting and condescending. Frankly, if you are going to keep up this approach you won't have to feel deterred, as you will be banned. Please consider this.
1. I am not a mod, emeritus is a Latin word meaning to earn one's discharge via service. I no longer moderate here and am the same as any other member.
2. You are not a soldier. Claiming an honor you have not earned will not win you respect, even on the Internet.
3. Please do take your show on the road and warn others. Bullcrap is a cheap commodity on the Internet, so the problem is limiting what we get, not finding more.
And that would affect us...... how????
Surprised no one has listed a trigger group upgrade. Edit, saw one mention. Quality sights or optic and new trigger. Lots of perfect practice. IMO the AR platform is plenty accurate and reliable. Its the user that needs improvement
I mentioned trigger in one of my posts, my favorite being the Geissele SSA as it's non-adjustable.
Apparently the OP spent all of his time in some mountain villages in Pakistan. That's the only Holy One we are currently seeking.
Please name the unit and where you actually operated. It will be the first credible thing I've seen posted. I hope.
Some of us have actually been face to face and handled terrorists, if our experience doesn't seem to mirror yours, sure. We all see just one small part of the big picture. One I saw right on the TV was that troops busting down doors use door breachers, just like SWAT. Buttstocks, NEVER. No properly trained MIL/LEO does that, they learn better in MOUT training.
Go ahead and list the mob station you were reminded of that, too. Me, I got Ft Dix, and we were retraining from Area Guard MP's to Confinement Fac. Went from Mob orders issued to boots on the ground offshore in less than 5 weeks, and on duty. We were very much the exception.
I've got to point out even the slang used doesn't ring true. Three tours? Really? My former MP unit has done that, with the lag time between, you're what age? 18 + 6 mos Basic/AIT plus: 18 mos and a minimum 9 mos between rotations X3 = ?
Moving to another forum won't help, some of us visit 5 a day.
Wow. I really love it when a new person comes on here acting like they know everything then starts complaining when he gets called out on it.
Zero, maybe you are a soldier, maybe you are not. But regardless, your knowledge of the platform is lacking. So far you have suggested some things that are ok (AFG works for some people) and others that are downright some of the worst on the market(Ergo grips are terrible).
You then claim that an Ace stock makes things stronger. I don't see to many ACE stocks on the guns of experienced shooters. Know what I do see? M4, CR, and IMod stocks mounted on a standard Receiver extension. And it is called a Receiver Extension. Not a "buffer tube"
A few other things of note.
Accuwedge is great for taking money out of your wallet. Not so great for actually helping your gun. In fact it can cause the gun to malfunction. There is no problem with play between the upper and lower. It has no impact on accuracy or reliability. Not only are they not a "must have" they are in fact a "Do not ever buy"
NC STAR. Some of the worst Chinese made crap on the market. How the heck could you expect to be taken seriously while suggesting this junk. What next? A UTG rail?
The piston kit, like all pistons, is pretty much useless. ARs run quite well without Pistons, they don't require cleaning and with a bit of Lube will run like the energizer bunny.
The tolerance for BS on the board is higher than the other boards I frequent. However there is only so much the experienced shooters here will put up with.
And your threats to leave if we don't "play nice" Well. Yeah. Don't let the door hit you......
So far the people calling you out are very experienced shooters. You would be well served in eating a bit of humble pie and listening to what they have to say.
You are probably right. I just listed what I felt was the most important "Addition" to an AR.
I thought the whole point of single-point slings was that they enforced muzzle control - fail to control the muzzle and you'll be bent over in pain shortly. I could explain more graphically but this is "The High Road."
Closed temporarily until some of the claims in this thread can be verified
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