What about those gas rings? Are they a "500 round" item,or,"life of the gun"? What other items are generaly replaced after X rounds to insure reliable shooting?Any of those springs(i've already found a broken extractor spring on mine,1000 rounds),but i belive that was my fault for poor cleaning....
AR-15 cleaning - how often?
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stevelyn
Member
I glad to hear I'm not the only one to store my long guns muzzle down. I found that the lube stays put and out of the stock, and keeps dust from entering the bore.
The AR's Achilles heel has been always been reliability problems based on close tolorances and the inferior design of the gas system, blowing gas and carbon fouling into the breech area and gumming up the works. Although the close tolorances wouldn't be a liability by themselves with a different gas system.
This is primarily why I chose the Daewoo K2 over a CAR-15. I've ran several hundred rounds through my K2 without it choking even once. When cleaning time came, there was hardly anything in the breech area or bolt face to clean out, it dosen't have a dust cover.
To be fair though, in the original Stoner design and specifications, the AR was very reliable. Problems arose when the gummint stuck their fingers in the pie and started tweeking things.
The main problem came from changing the original powder in the cartridges to a slower and dirtier burning propellant. This raised the cyclic firing rate way up putting more stress on the gun, and causing more wear and heat. Then of course the additional fouling from inferior powder.
The gummint in it's infinite wisdom
, instead of going back to original powder specs, tweeked even more by adding the forward assist and telling GIs they needed to clean more often. They even changed the powder specs even more and went with a Win. propellant. H335 is now the standard propellant in GI ammo.My basic training issue M-16 was a Vietnam Era, 3 prong suppresser type, POS. Accurate? Well I qualified expert with it, but it gagged on about every 5th round. Swore I would never own one.
IMHO, if you shoot it, clean it. If it sits more than six months w/o shooting, clean it. If you don't shoot it regularly, inspect it monthly, and clean if needed.
Uhmmm...........and those three holes in the bolt carrier is to bleed off gas once the bolt starts to unlock. But yes you can put oil in them, just make sure the bolt is in it's locked position before you do, otherwise the first round will burn/blow it out.
I think that few people realize how quickly you can ruin a barrel even a stainless one by not cleaning it often enough. The acummulation of burt power constantly being ground into the bore and the rapid build up of copper deposits are all a sure and positive way that lead to the early death of the bore as far as gilt edge accuracy is concerned. Rapid fire which leads to over heating and cooking of the bore also will ruin an AR in short order.
Not using an oil specifically designed for firearms is also another short cut many people try and get away with. Some oils and lubes may work but many don't work near as well as oils and greases designed for the extreme fricition of linear motion and designed to work in a high heat environment often found when using semi-auto weapons.
I think the original LSA fluid is still the best (it was designed for the weapon) the only problem is is finding enough of it at an affordable price. The second oil of my choice has been Break Free CLP ,not the lower priced industrial grade of Break Free.
I even like to use a thin film of grease on the bolt lugs and bolt body. Anything that keeps the friction down will help prolong parts life.
Not using an oil specifically designed for firearms is also another short cut many people try and get away with. Some oils and lubes may work but many don't work near as well as oils and greases designed for the extreme fricition of linear motion and designed to work in a high heat environment often found when using semi-auto weapons.
I think the original LSA fluid is still the best (it was designed for the weapon) the only problem is is finding enough of it at an affordable price. The second oil of my choice has been Break Free CLP ,not the lower priced industrial grade of Break Free.
I even like to use a thin film of grease on the bolt lugs and bolt body. Anything that keeps the friction down will help prolong parts life.
DrDremel
Member
My recommendation is to clean it as often as possible. Remember that the AR-15 gets dirty in 1/10th the time of a piston operated rifle.
I am no AR15 expert, but I have some experience with them. For example I actually own an AR15, actually quite a few of them. I am not the most experienced AR15 shooter in the world, but I have fired over 4000 rounds out of an AR since the beginning of February. I fired around 200 rounds today, about the same yesterday, and will do the same for the next two days in a formal training environment. In fact, this year I have spent 10 days of formal training while using the AR15 rifle along with almost all the other students in these classes. Between these two classes alone, I have fired around 2500 rounds of ammo.
Based on what experience I have with the weapons system, I have to say that about half the stuff I have read on this thread is misinformed at best, and ridiculous at worst.
Based on what experience I have with the weapons system, I have to say that about half the stuff I have read on this thread is misinformed at best, and ridiculous at worst.
Joe Demko
Member
Yeah, and we all know that your typical THR member is in a firefight or two on a daily basis.
When I was in the army, over twenty years ago, we had M-16A1 rifles. Mine never gave me any problems. Also, over the years, I've owned two Colt and two Bushmaster rifles. None of them gave me any problems. In the service, I cleaned very frequently as that was procedure. For my personal rifles, I clean when I feel like it. If there is anything in the world of gunlore that is more of a myth than AR-series' dirt sensitivity, I can't imagine what it would be.
When I was in the army, over twenty years ago, we had M-16A1 rifles. Mine never gave me any problems. Also, over the years, I've owned two Colt and two Bushmaster rifles. None of them gave me any problems. In the service, I cleaned very frequently as that was procedure. For my personal rifles, I clean when I feel like it. If there is anything in the world of gunlore that is more of a myth than AR-series' dirt sensitivity, I can't imagine what it would be.
TheLastBoyScout
Member
I clean every time, and have yet to have a gun-related malfunction (I had one round of dud ammo, but thats the only failure the gun has ever had).
I just finished the four day rifle course that I mentioned in an earlier post. The course was held in the desert. No grass, no pavement, it was just a graded off piece of desert. The last two days we had high winds. The inside of my pickup is covered in dust from the blowing dirt. During the course, we were required to rapidly assume various shooting positions; for example we were required to drop into the prone position and put one shot into the vitals of a silhouette at 200 yards within 6.9 seconds. We did this over and over and over at various ranges. Obviously when you hit the dirt, you hands are covered with dirt which you then use to manipulate the rifle. This combined with the dirt clouds caused by all the students doing this at once left my AR completely covered in dust and dirt. My AR is now light brown colored from muzzle to buttplate. In addition, because this was a formal course, we were required to spend all the time we were not actually firing the weapon with the mag out and the dust cover open so the instructors could tell at a glance that our weapon was unloaded. I ended up firing something over 600 rounds without a single malfunction (other than those purposely induced for training on clearing malfunctions). Not one. I guarentee that very few civilians will ever get an AR this dirty certainly not those of you who don't even own one, or those of you who own one that you never shoot.
I am certainly glad that I rely on my own experience rather than the crap I read on-line.
Oh, and I left out one thing. I was shooting Wolf ammo which is the victim of even more internet BS. Using this dirty rifle and Wolf ammo enabled me to put every shot in the vitals at 200 yards. I also managed to hit 7 out of 8 shots on a steel half-silhouette at 400 yards from the prone position in these winds. Try that with your AK.
I am certainly glad that I rely on my own experience rather than the crap I read on-line.
Oh, and I left out one thing. I was shooting Wolf ammo which is the victim of even more internet BS. Using this dirty rifle and Wolf ammo enabled me to put every shot in the vitals at 200 yards. I also managed to hit 7 out of 8 shots on a steel half-silhouette at 400 yards from the prone position in these winds. Try that with your AK.
TexasBret
Member
444
I am certainly glad that I rely on my own experience rather than the crap I read on-line.
I'm not sure who's crap you have been reading, but I'm sure that must be quite messy. I certainly think you should rely just on your own experience, which seems to tell you that your gun never needs cleaning. That's fine with me, but that was the question after all. I ONLY post what I have experienced, but your free to ignore it. Just be sure to come to the defense of those maintenance company soldiers when somebody puts them down for not cleaning their rifles frequently enough, because you KNOW it's just a bunch of crap!
I am certainly glad that I rely on my own experience rather than the crap I read on-line.
I'm not sure who's crap you have been reading, but I'm sure that must be quite messy. I certainly think you should rely just on your own experience, which seems to tell you that your gun never needs cleaning. That's fine with me, but that was the question after all. I ONLY post what I have experienced, but your free to ignore it. Just be sure to come to the defense of those maintenance company soldiers when somebody puts them down for not cleaning their rifles frequently enough, because you KNOW it's just a bunch of crap!
Matt1911- I ran one set of piston rings 6000 rounds. They're cheap, now with my new gun I figure I'll replace them every 2,000 or so, never had a reliability problem with mine. Other than that I had replaced only the firing pin and I still have the old one which is servicable. Just wanted to be sure since the old one had seen a fair amount of dryfire and I didn't want it breaking. The cotter pin that retained the firing pin looked like a pretzel but was still working.
When I sold my pre-ban it was 8 years and 8,000 rounds old, I know, I know, shoot more but I lost a lot of time being married and deployed. Most of those rounds were in the last two years. Who knows, maybe I hurt the gun not cleaning it enough, but it would still shoot to 2" at 100yds on iron sights for me and was bone reliable. I always fired no more than 60 rounds before letting it cool, but those 60 could be rapid depending upon what I was up too. When I sold it it looked near new as the people that got the pieces commented. I did not destroy it by overcleaning like all the military M-16s. Taking apart your M-16 in boot camp everyday has less to do with weapon function and more to do with keeping the recruit busy and supposedly learning something. An experienced gun owner ought to be able to determine what maintenance their gun needs based on field conditions, not by some arbitrary schedule.
When I sold my pre-ban it was 8 years and 8,000 rounds old, I know, I know, shoot more but I lost a lot of time being married and deployed. Most of those rounds were in the last two years. Who knows, maybe I hurt the gun not cleaning it enough, but it would still shoot to 2" at 100yds on iron sights for me and was bone reliable. I always fired no more than 60 rounds before letting it cool, but those 60 could be rapid depending upon what I was up too. When I sold it it looked near new as the people that got the pieces commented. I did not destroy it by overcleaning like all the military M-16s. Taking apart your M-16 in boot camp everyday has less to do with weapon function and more to do with keeping the recruit busy and supposedly learning something. An experienced gun owner ought to be able to determine what maintenance their gun needs based on field conditions, not by some arbitrary schedule.
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