Ar 15 cons

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Bcwitt, May 17, 2021.

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  1. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I personally have never had a forward assist take a gun from a non-functional state to a functional state. I have on one or two occasions made the situation worst with a forward assist but never better. If the round does not go into battery, I am not going to try to force it with the forward assist. I am going to get rid of that round.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  2. Zerodefect

    Zerodefect Member

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    Should come with an ambi safety. That's my only complaint.

    Ambi bolt release and mag release sure would be nice as well, but not as important.
     
  3. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    You clearly have never been handed an SA80/L85--nothing is near any hand using the thing. Even with the L85AE, not even H&K was able to 100% prevent LBE from dumping the magazine w/o warning.

    To work the magazine, you poke the button with right index finger while the left hand gets a new mag which you sweep into the mag well in one smooth motion (no rock-n-lock) and your mitt is right there to trip the bolt release.

    Ok, maybe, just maybe, on a bench, perhaps. Out in the field, you have to give up your primary hand to work the magazine release and bang the mag out (you need the support hand to stay near the balance). Then, you have to grab the new mag, and wrestle it up into the notch and rock-n-lock it into place, to then have to rack the bolt handle back (and all the way--short stroking an AK under stress is all too easy), and then, only then, take up a firing grip again.

    LoL. Been 56 years sliding into obscurity so far [:)]

    On a bench, maybe. Or, maybe with a Krink.
     
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  4. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

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    I hate the charging handle and I am indifferent to the forward assist. All but one of mine are side chargers with reciprocating charging handles so I kill two birds with one stone on that. None of the other features or controls offend me.
     
  5. CraigC
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    CraigC Sixgun Nut

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    This is absolutely one of the silliest arguments I've seen in a very long time. Sounds like some seriously deficient training, rather than any deficiency of the AR platform.
     
  6. Charlie98

    Charlie98 Member

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    I guess I'm showing my age... most folks my age understand sarcasm. Granted, these days, my comment could be taken as a serious viewpoint... so there is that.

    I never had a problem in the military with my M16's (and I'm of the same era as 12Bravo above...) and now with my purpose built AR's. I've found that you adapt to what you have in front of you, eventually. My AR is far easier to operate than, say, my M1a or my Garand. As far as single-arm utility... nothing is easy to work with one-handed. Jeepers, try running a Garand one-handed!
     
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  7. daniel craig

    daniel craig Member

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    I’m not an AR guy, mostly for Ergos but they’re reliable, well designed weapons when used properly. Good mags are good mags, the forward assist is quite useful in a lot of situations, the bolt catch is easy to find and manipulate, mag release is conveniently located, charging handle while not in a “normal” location is good for ambi purposes and the fact that it doesn’t reciprocate with the bolt means there’s not a moving part sticking out of the gun to get caught on something.

    Honestly there aren’t a ton of cons with an AR.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  8. trackskippy

    trackskippy Member

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    I think the basis for most cons with any of them, is more a lack of familiarity and experience with whatever is being complained about, more than anything else.
     
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  9. daniel craig

    daniel craig Member

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    The idea being, I think, is that your strong hand (if you’re a righty) is for holding the gun and pulling the trigger. Sort of a “never take your firing hand off the gun” so you can shoot immediately after loading. Again that’s just speculation.
     
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  10. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    The new fad is the 6.5 Creedmore.

    ^^^^^^^ THIS!
    I am a southpaw and as one I never saw the need for a ambidextrous safety. I just learned to adapt like anything else that life throws at you. It is just as easy to flip the safety with your index finger as it is with someone who is right handed and use a thumb. Familiarty and adaptability are of the utmost importance. I own a python and a S&W 686 and prefer the 686 to the colt python simply because it is easier for me as a south paw to operate the cylinder release button on the 686 than the colt. What most shooters use their thumbs for on a firearm I use my index finger, not just for picking my nose or scratching my frontal lobe.
     
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  11. sevt_chevelle

    sevt_chevelle Member

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    Yep the AR is such a crappy design that most "modern" rifles copy it's layout.
     
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  12. derek45

    derek45 Member

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    I suspect some of the naysayers simply have alack of training on the AR type rifle.

    It has excellent ergonomics

    Early ones had a different charging handle, and no forward assist.

    1960's era pentagon Army brass, trained on pushing the Garand handle forward, demanded the forward assist.

    Eugene Stoner said it wasn't needed, and the USAF M16's didn't have them.

    prototype
    u5d9Qto.jpg

    early one, not lack of fwd assist, and not fence around mag release.
    fLZI3mg.jpg
     
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  13. army_eod

    army_eod Member

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    Name a better firearm for comparison.
     
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  14. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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    Seems like it's a 1911 type thing. If you trained with that, the other comes easier.
    Both have pretty solid engineering. Both require proper training.
    Seems like anyway. It's much harder to break bad habits than not.
    Get some proper training, try it again. Practice does not make perfect.
    Perfect practice helps though.

    :evil:;)
     
  15. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Nope. Far more reasons (more pros than cons) the M16/AR15 platform has been (in its various iterations) the main battle rifle for our country the past 55 years or so.... far longer than any other rifle has ever served.

    But kudos to the OP for at least returning to his thread the next day (seems as though more'n a few thread-starters lately haven't posted in their own threads after they realized not everyone was jumping onboard to agree with them).

    Even though the OP did return to seemingly make an effort to turn this into an AR vs. AK thread...
     
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  16. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    You can still fire a shot WHILE reloading if youve got a round in the pipe.

    Ive never been in combat, but i can see the advantages of not taking your firing/control hand out of position.
     
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  17. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    No gun is perfect but I've been shooting an AR since 1985 and haven't found anything more perfect. If I could only own one gun, it would be a 16" AR for pure versatility.
     
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  18. army_eod

    army_eod Member

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    Same here
     
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  19. ACES&8S

    ACES&8S Member

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    I am with @LoonWulf on this one, I can build them all day then shoot them about 15 minutes.
    I love to get them accurate to where you can pop golf balls at 200 yards every shot, OR for home defense
    rapid close combat & maneuver easily.
    Accessories is what lures us in, the rifle alone may cost like $1,500, but you can double that easily with
    the latest gadget.
    It is what it is.
    I like em as is when I get em, then I love em when I am finished =Almost the perfect rifle. Where have I heard that?
    @Bcwitt is just playing Rope A Dope with us.
     
  20. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    A rifleman uses a sling to steady his shots. That means you have to undo your sling hold to do a left
    Why do you say that? I never bashed the AR, I like the AR. There are a few things about it I dont like. I'm not sure why having a different veiw of things is so problematic for so many folks. Can you please explain?
     
  21. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    I was intending to open conversation on design details. I guess that is taboo here?
     
  22. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    It is my belief that an AK magazine is far superior to a GI AR magazine. Both in ruggedness & reliability. Are we on fairly strong ground there?
     
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  23. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    I guess there aren't many foreward-thinking folks interested in designing a better firearm. That's where I was headed.
     
  24. mcb

    mcb Member

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    Why is it better? The rock to lock of the AK magazine is not as fumble proof as the simple straight insertion of the STANAG magazine. The steel AK magazine is noticeable heavier, even before you put heavier ammunition in it, than the aluminum STANAG magazine. Not seeing an advantage to the AK magazine.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  25. Bcwitt

    Bcwitt Member

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    STANAG followers tilt. Even the "non tilt" version tilts. An AK follower stays true regardless where force is applied. The AR catch is not reliable when bolt is fwd. Requires you to slap it very hard to assure latch. That effectively negates the perceived speed advantage of a handgun style magazine & catch. Aluminum will always have more friction than steel. A small amount of carbon drastically increases friction w aluminum. That is a metallurgical fact. As far as fumble proofing, that is a matter of practice. Once you learn the trick of it, I think you will find it is more natural then you think. ARs routinely have magazine issues that are absent on AKs.
     
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