AR-15 for Deer.

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70gr Barnes TSX shot into solid dry phonebooks, 2700+fps at about 15'. That solid shank isn't going to fragment, so penetration will not be an issue.

[ link to LARGER image ]

If you want to hunt deer with a 223 and it's legal in your state, just pick an appropriate bullet and know your limitations.

-z

ETA--- there's not reason to limit this to the 223. There are now a bunch of other viable caliber choices fofr the AR15 which get you in the 100-300gr bullet range, depending on what trajectory you want.
 
Several things to remember: A lot of these bullets just didn't exist until relatively recently. Not all of the "average hunter" types even know about them. Some of these bullets are handloader-only, or else are not commonly in stock at the proverbial average ammo-seller's--Wal-Mart, Ace Hardware, etc.

Game laws about appropriate cartridges have always been aimed at the average hunter of average skill and are based on what was commonly available at the time of the writing.

As far as Bambi, though, for all that the majority of my kills have been right around 100 yards, I want to have confidence that I'm able to *reliably* get a DRT at 400. That keeps me from getting excited about the new bullets in the smaller calibers.

Art
 
You guys or Ya'll are a hoot.

Ok guys thanks for the info. Just to clarify for some of the guys tellin me to use different rifles. Sure im man enuff to shoot bigger guns , Hell i got 300 magnum 7mm magnum,.280 rem, AR-10 and a .257 Weatherby Magnum. Recovering from recoil takes a little longer on my other guns and the ar-15 has no recoil practically. Therefore, If i need followup shots the AR-15 is much quicker. Since I can harvest 3 doe a day, I shoot alot. .Not to mention the weight of the little .223 pop gun lots lighter than the Browning Bars ,Rem 7400 or the AR-10. The Tennessee Wildlife Resource Agency says i can use the AR-15 so im gonna give it a try and if i put holes in a deer and i cant recover the animal then i will go back to the HEAVY AR-10. Finally i just wanted to know what bullet weights and contruction work well from some of you who actually shot deer with the pop gun round. Just a simple question but i gotta hear oh you sissy cant you shoot a bigger gun? What about a lever action this or that? But the facts are when a man wants to shoot or hunt with an AR platform nothin else will do.:neener:
 
I have a .222 that I have killed many whitetails with. I let my grand son start his deer hunting with it at about age 8 and he has taken many deer with it. He is 19 now and still has enough confidence in it to use it occasionally on what he is sure will be relatively short range shots.

My experience is that if you pick your shot and hit the vitals he will go down about as quick as with the 25-30 callibers. But the little bullet is not as forgiving and if you are off a little he will run a long ways.

I roll my own and usually load 55 gr BTSP to about 3200 fps for deer.
 
Sorry don't mean to hijack the thread.... but

Zak, did you try pushing the 70gain bullets any faster?
Was the 2700+fps the best accuracy load?
Or is the velocity due to the solid copper construction of the Barnes?
What was the load?
Oh, what COL?

Zak, as I let you know last week, I am trying to work up a load for some Lapua Scenar 4.5gram (69-70grain) BTHP for my 1:9 20" AR using CCI primers and BL-C(2). I have some loads made up ranging from 24.5gr to 26.1gr with a COL of 2.255". Unfortunatly I have to wait and see what works best.

Back on the subject, NM allows .223 for hunting deer. From the look of the Lapua Scenar I wouldn't recomend it for hunting, It "appears" more like a target bullet. The Scenar is very similar to the Sierra MatchKing. The Barnes sound like a really good bullet for hunting, that or a softpoint. But most of the hollow points in .224 caliber, seem to me, more for varmint or target use.
 
Rich,

Basically, I threw together a few loads which shot 2700 - 2750fps from a 14.5" barrel, using IM4895 and Varget, Winchester brass, and seated to magazine length. You might be able to get more, but the limiter will likely be powder space due to the LONG bullets.

-z
 
My wife took a button buck last year and has taken several piglets (60-70 lbs) with her Bushmaster. She uses 64 grain softpoints. The critters dropped like a sack, all neck shots under 100 yards.

Use that AR-15 this season, have fun and good hunting!
 
The 223 is an excellent varmint caliber. Wish people would stick to varmints with the caliber and leave the AR's at home when deer season rolls around. Can't say anything constructive about an AR in the woods for deer hunting (sport) regardless of state laws..... Sorry, I know there are lots of you who disagree with me.
 
No reason to leave the AR at home

I'm holding a 16" AR in 7.62x39:

attachment.php


Works for me. This rifle has two doe and three hogs to its credit so far, and I've got another 7.62x39 AR that's got a buncha hogs to its credit.
 
i do realize that is is an extrmely old thread ( over 2 years i believe) but in reading it and with the increased popularity of the AR type rifles in the hunting arena, i felt that i had to comment as every year,just ahead of deer season beginning, this question comes up quite often

"is a 223 a good deer rifle"


my answer is this.

firstly, ive been hunting deer with small caliber centerfire rifles for years (over 35 years) and all i can say is yes, they are. ive taken deer quite often on land depredation permits,regular deer season,etc and have killed well over 100+ in my time with everything from a 22 hornet all the way up to 22-250 with the 222,223 and 22 hornet being my all time favorites. they work exeptionally well. so well in fact that now the majority of the states in the US have changed there game laws in recent years to reflect that it is now legal in most states to use ANY centerfire cartridge. in all of the deer ive killed with these small calibers, i have yet to have one run more than 25 yards max, and most of them drop like someone flicked off a switch or like they were struck by lightning...even many years ago when we didnt have access to all of the high tech bullets and powders we have now, we used to shoot them ( deer ) with regular old varmint weight bullets and they still didnt twitch when hit.

99% of the comments youll read online condeming the 223 and 222 as poor inhumane cartridges to use on deer are NOT speaking from experience, but from what they have read someone else repeat online condemning the 22 centerfires in the deer woods. all i can say is HOGWASH. i have plenty of pictures ive taken over the years of the sheer devistating damage the 222 and 223 do to deer to prove what i say ( i was going to post the pictures here, but alot of them are really gory and bloody)....

personally, this year i built a super accurate AR-15 im going to use. ill be shooting 75gr hornady match bullets. ive had great long range success with these (out to 650+ yards out of this AR) and the gun will shoot an average 1 hole group at 300 yards, with the groups only opening up to around 1/2 dollar size at 600+ yards........

like i said, dont believe ehwat you read when you hear these guys slapping the 223 around. if it will kill a man cleanly, i will kill a deer even twice as fast (remeber the DC sniper?....he used a regular old HB bushmaster AR i believe as a 'sniper" rifle and killed alot of people with 1 shot from long distances...all with that little old inaccurate 223...imagine that)
 
Bullets have come a long way since the 223 was introduced. There are plenty of very good deer class 223 bullets. I've gone to 53gn TSX because the 64gn Winchesters I started with were too destructive. My hunting buddy's wife has used an AR for two years deer hunting, and all of her deer have been DRT out to about 200 yards.

Around here, 223 is very popular for white tail.

I am not sure why people see the AR as heavy. It's lighter than a good percentage of hunting rifles I see out in the field. My daughter has a 16 inch AR that weighs under 7 pounds all up and with scope. It's easy for her to pack around and she can shoot 2 inches or better with anything we put into it.
 
Get a 6.8 or 6.5 upper. It'll give ya a little more room for error - since it's hard to guarantee perfect placement.
 
Man, this thread is antique! I'll still, every time I see one of these 223 threads, ask myself why I should quit using what I know works for a .22? My smallest diameter deer killer is .257". I don't see why I'd want any less, just me I guess. I don't have to have a tacticool rifle, don't even like 'em, but as Jimmie just posted, there are other calibers now and you don't have to go to an AR10 to get an effective deer caliber in an AR.

STILL, after 2 years, JMHO. :D
 
.204? I guess my concern would be mostly about penetration. Odds are, with a neck or head shot, it would do just fine. Maybe even a 90-degree heart shot. I'm always dubious about any of the smaller bullets when it comes to shooting through a good bit of meat--or innards--before hitting a vital area.

The reason I talk about penetration is that I once pulled off an inch or two on a front angle shot on a buck. Instead of going in through the front of the chest, the bullet broke up on the upper part of the near foreleg. The buck went down, apparently DRT, but managed to get up and run off before I could reorganize my brain. And that was with a .30-'06. (My second effort on him, I wound up with 4X setting sun in my eye as i was lining up on the buck. Bummer.)
 
I don't have to have a tacticool rifle
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nope, but you have to call them "tacticool" twice in one thread :rolleyes:

A lot of people shoot their ARs weekly, thus they feel more practiced and accurate with their frequent shooting rifle.

Why is it some people MUST state "tacticool" "kool-aid" "mall ninja", when someone wants to use a rifle for hunting?

An AR is a rifle, accurate and can be accessorized. There is no need to hunt with a "sporterized" or "socially acceptable" rifle IMO.

By the way, if you're so opposed to using military rifles for hunting, you better not use a flintlock, bolt action, or lever action rifle as all of these were military rifles at some point in time lol.
 
+1 on the Triple Shocks....The 53 grain TSX will work just fine on deer. You will be amazed at how well of a job it really does. It does a nice job with expansion, terminal damage, and travel. Those who have not tried it need to see it to beleive it before telling others not to do it. The key is waiting for the right shot and placing the bullet in the correct spot. Even on shoulder shots out to 150+ yards, the TSX's will exit the off-side shoulder in most cases on deer. Everyone is right, most people get in "trouble" with shooting deer sized game with .22 cetnerfires for two main reasons:

1) Bullet Choice (highly recommend tough bullets like TSX, Partitions, Power Points, or Bear Claws)

2) Taking sub-par shot angles. While not entirely the same, hunting deer with a .22 centerfire is similar bow hunting (In the aspect that you have to wait for the right shot and put it in the right place). You don't have to only take head or neck shots, but a shot right behind the shoulder will often dispatch an animal just as quickly (if not faster) as a larger caliber would. Just like bow hunting, its not for every one but it can be a very effective tool for taking deer. It may not be your choice, but it might be someone else's.
 
MC,

Numerous people have killed deer with the .45 ACP from a pistol. From a subgun, given the extra velocity, your range is increased even more.

It depends on the shooter. I'll be taking a deer next season with one of my .223s. Either my Saiga or my AR-15. Most likely the Saiga.
 
You don't gain that much from the long barrel in a .45, not like a magnum revolver cartridge. I get about 400 fps extra from a hot .357 load in my Rossi 92's 20" barrel over my Blackhawk. .45 is lucky to gain 100 fps from a longer barre, not really enough to amount to much in effectiveness. Have chronograph, done the math. It's going to be a 50 yard gun at best, not just from lack of energy, but from the rainbow trajectory. I'll say the .223 will at least take Texas bambis at 100 yards with the right bullet. That's and improvement on the .45, I reckon. .22-250 is rather popular down here, but our deer are more like varmint hunting. I've seen the deer around College Station, not much difference. Class of 75. :D
 
I have loaded the 223, Sierra 69gr. HPBT for a friend's wife to hunt with. She has taken 3 deer with it so far.
 
Will the .223 work on this thread?????

I'll keep my .30-30, mainly because I don't plan on assaulting the deer with 30 rounds as 1 usually does it.....

HB
 
There's some fallacious thinking in this thread.

What im trying to say is the .223 is used to kill men by the military. If the round can kill men then why are so many of you against shooting a deer that weighs as much as an average woman.
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Not at all applicable. If you're "killing men", it usually doesn't matter if it takes them a few minutes to die. On a deer, that could be half a mile or more of distance, and unless you got a good blood trail, you've just lost a deer.

Don't get me wrong: with a bullet whose performance that you've tested, a .223 can work just fine. Don't expect a lot of sympathy about your 15 lb rifle, though: I've marched many a mile carrying a 35 lb cannon.

From your description, you have plenty of suitable rifles available. Your reasons why you're not going to use them don't really hold up to examination. If you're going to use a legal firearm, use it, but don't just come to us to back up the decision you've already made.

John
 
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