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ar 15 optics

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by JO JO, Mar 9, 2013.

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  1. JO JO

    JO JO Member

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    Is putting a red dot optic on my AR really worth it, I have had it for 6 or so years, always used iron sights and hit what I aim at just fine, since this AR
    craze I see a lot of folks adding red dots and scopes to them? I do have a
    rem 700 308 with a nice scope but that's a different animal
     
  2. lpsharp88

    lpsharp88 Member

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    Depends on what you want to use it for. I find that something like an Eotech or Aimpoint allow for faster target acquisition. Just put dot on target and fire, don't have to worry about aligning rear and front sights and all that.
     
  3. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    Red dots are about speed. I shoot a lot of irons, in high power, many more rounds with irons that red dots.

    I shoot in our local club .22 steel plate speed events every other month. I hold our record. I use an Aimpoint Micro T-1 for that. I have shot the same gun on the same course of fire with irons, including both open rear and peeps, and the red dot is simply faster.
     
  4. Revoliver

    Revoliver Member

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  5. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    A quality optic or RDS will be worth it i.e. Eotech/Aimpoint/Trijicon.

    Other than quick target acquisition, they also are easier to use in low light, very rugged/durable, and will last you a lifetime with casual use.

    An option I usually suggest is to get an Eotech and co-witness with our iron sights. The Eotech's window is large enough that you can still shoot just your irons if you desire, and turn on the Eotech only when you want to use it.

    The only very minor downside is additional weight.
     
  6. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    Defense, hunting, work, competition or general purpose? If you have but 1 AR and it has to do it all I would go for a low magnification scope and add a side mounted small holograph if I felt I needed something for up close. That said I can still hit pretty well at 200 with a EOtech and it is my favorite all around AR sight.
     
  7. SonoftheRepublic

    SonoftheRepublic Member

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    I wear glasses and am in my 50's, but still prefer the sturdiness and dependability of good ol' iron sights on my rifles. With a little practice, I find them plenty quick on target. And I can shoot 2 moa groups at 250 yards prone, (my standard of excellence).

    "Two weeks after the balloon goes up, iron sights will rule the world." - Clint Smith
     
  8. arizona98tj

    arizona98tj Member

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    Years ago, which means it pre-dates "this craze", I put a 3.5x ACOG on my M&P15. It is, IMO, the best of both worlds....it is quick like a red dot, it is illuminated but without the need for batteries (unlike a red dot), and just enough magnification to help my old eyes see what they need to see. I wouldn't want my AR set up any other way. :)
     
  9. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    If you want an inexpensive RDS, you might want to try the Bushnell TRS-25. They go for about $90 +/- and while not an Eotech or Aimpoint, the sight has received plenty of good reviews.

    I just mounted one on my WASR and was very impressed with it.
     
  10. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    I feel it is pretty irresponsible to suggest that optic without inquiring into what the intended use of the gun is. Even the makers of that optic will tell you it is not intended for a duty gun or defensive weapon. If that is the intended use buy an aimpoint, perhaps the pro, not a cheap knock off. As far as knock offs go the primary arms one is a good one.

    Whether a RDS is "worth it." Is something that depends on factors such as use and money you have to to spend. They are undeniably faster for most people, most of the time. A RDS like an aimpoint it pretty dang rugged and reliable and has a very long battery life. There is a reason you see a lot of very serious shooters use them. To me a good RDS is totally worth it. Personally I like the reliability, size, weight, and long battery life of the aimpoint T1/H1 micros.
     
  11. Revoliver

    Revoliver Member

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    Good for you, considering the OP did not state any particular purposes that are to be fulfilled, I feel that he/she is intelligent enough to read what it is and make their own decisions as to whether it fits their criteria. Considering what it is (3x illuminated etched reticle tough as nails scope), it does fit a very wide range of applications, hence the suggestion.

    Please cite your source, I am unable to find it. (Edit: on neither Primary Arms' website nor Burris')

    First of all, pretty big "IF" and second of all, it's not a knockoff of anything you mentioned. It's a cheaper cosmetically different enough to not be sued version of the Burris AR332 (cleaner/less busy reticle, only red instead of red and green, two 45¤ rails instead of 3 90¤ rails) which costs considerably more.

    As to whether it's worthy of being a duty scope or not, I am no longer in service and going to the endless beach anymore.

    Regardless, so far I would have no reservations about using mine in combat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  12. silicosys4

    silicosys4 Member

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    ^^ or you could spend $100 more and get the aimpoint so you never have to have this conversation. If you shop around you can find an aimpoint for reasonable prices. I paid less than $500 bnib from an online retailer for my comp m4....and thats a higher end one.
     
  13. needmorecowbell

    needmorecowbell Member

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    Absolutely worth it. I chose the Lucid HD7. Works great for me. Just to throw gas on the fire, I think it's just as good as many high dollar ones except doesn't have the battery life if I choose to use for 2 years straight. Now it's a party
     
  14. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Posts all over AR15.com. You can search for post from Marsh1 if you really care to find it. Primary Arms also has an industry sub forum there. Go post and ask if they endorse it for that use if you doubt it. Or you could call them up. Honestly, I'm not going to spend my time to search for specific threads. Sorry.

    I admittedly should have looked at which PA optic you were referencing. I figured it was one of their actual RDS not a 3x with BDC recticle, being as the OP was asking about RDSs not optics with BDCs.


    You are entitled to your opinion, but it is most likely one not many people would share.
     
  15. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Optics get you hits faster. Will a good shooter with irons outshoot a poor shooter with a red dot? Probably, but give that good shooter a red dot or other optic and they will be even faster.

    I'd only trust Aimpoints and the Trijicon and Meprolight reflex sights for 1x optics. I've seen too many EoTechs fail while shooting to depend on them. The PA optics are good for the money, but they ain't Aimpoints.

    As to choosing a 1x red dot or magnified optic, that depends a whole lot on what kind of shooting you anticipate doing.

    BSW
     
  16. wojownik

    wojownik Member

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    I'm finding - as my vision has changed - a little assist from a red dot or holographic site is not a bad thing at all. I have an Eotech on one AR, and an Aimpoint on another. I much prefer the reticle of the Eotech, but very much like the overall form factor of the Aimpoint Pro.

    So, yes for my purposes, a good red dot/holographic was worth it. But see if you can get your hands on different models to try before you buy...
     
  17. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    I tried a few things and settled on a 2-7x scope. put it on 2x and I can use it both eyes open for quick shots and crank it up to 7 for a longer shot off a rest. My eyes aren't good enough for irons past 50yds or so and I just can't fall in love with dots.
     
  18. Revoliver

    Revoliver Member

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    So, not the manufacturer like you said, check.

    You've got this bassackwards. You are the one claiming/doubting that it is not fit for use on a duty weapon, therefore you are the one that is to go ask the manufacturer, seeing as they have not in any way stated this.

    No, you're just the one that's going to make claims with no factual basis and be so lazy that you tell others to prove you right.

    That's not just sorry, it's irresponsible.

    Considering my opinion is based on first hand experience and facts, I have no problem with it being at odds with someone's that doesn't even know what the actual item being discussed is, much less any of their other claims about the item.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2013
  19. ACP

    ACP Member

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    Don't bother. I spent $440 on an Aimpoint, barely used it, sold it.

    I'd either us irons (my favorite) or a Nikon low magnification scope.
     
  20. MrCleanOK

    MrCleanOK Member

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    JO JO, putting optics on a rifle is a decision you have to make, and you are the only person who can decide if the results are "worth it".

    This is a topic of great debate for a lot of people, here are my opinions on the subject:

    Pros:
    -Faster to use than iron sights
    -Easier to use than iron sights
    -Redundant sight system
    -Useful in low-light/no-light, some RDS are compatible with night vision devices

    Cons:
    -Increased weight
    -Increased cost
    -Require batteries
    -Rifle is more complex

    Only you know if your purposes would best be served with a red dot sight, and if they would be, what your price/quality tipping point is. If getting hits faster isn't important to you, you probably don't need a red dot sight.
     
  21. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    While the Cons Mr. Clean lists are valid and are cons vis-a-vis irons. I think it is worth mentioning a few things to put them in perspective.

    Cons:
    -Increased weight--A t1 in a LaRue mount weighs 6.1 ounces. One could find a lighter mount but Larue is the creme de la creme. A T1 with a DD mount is 4.7 ounces. IDK what it weighs, but I would guess an RMR sight is even less. In most instances people use BUIS so a RDS is additional weight. However, depending on use, one might not, and if you are replaces a front sight post with either a shaved one or a low profile gas block you can save about 4 oz. A rear sight can weigh anywhere from about 9 oz for a detachable carry handle to about 1.4 ounces for MBUS. So with good RDS one could add as little as about 5-7 oz and it could weigh as much as 8-9 oz less than the heavier iron sight setups. A T1 and MBUS could weigh only a couple ounces more than a FSP and a fixed rear, or less than a FSP and carry handle. All in all a good RDS doesn't have to add a lot of weight and must folks could shave the added weight elsewhere on the rifle without much trouble if they were super concerned.

    -Increased cost--No real denying that. Good RDS start at around $400

    -Require batteries--If one uses something like an aimpoint the batter life is between 30-70K hours constant on. Sure it takes batteries but they only need to be replaced every few years. Many lesser optics eat batteries badly. That is as much a reason to skip them as the world of difference in build quality and durability.

    -Rifle is more complex--I suppose this may depend on the set up, but with something like a grab and go constant on aimpoint I don't really see it being anymore complex, let alone in any notable way. I suppose if one runs folding BUIS (many folks run fixed BUIS, see eg larry vickers) folding them up if ever needed is slightly more complicated. Apart from that one could argue a RDS gun is somewhat more simple to use. I suppose complex could simply refer to the fact there is something additional, which is true. But if it doesn't complicate function its not much an issue is it?
     
  22. Skylerbone

    Skylerbone Member

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    Agreed on personal choice and that positives make an RDS a reasonable choice for many applications.

    We've covered the topic of brands before and it always devolves into a thread closing battle of opinions. I own several by Vortex, no failures to report and I'd bet they can take more punishment than a conventional riflescope. So for those who would not "head to war" with anything "less" than an Aimpoint or ACOG, consider what Hathcock and others accomplished with basic tools before committing to the all or nothing philosophy. My reason for Vortex was simple; they do what I want, they have an excellent track record and they have a lifetime warranty. No fault, no registration cards, no saving receipts and fully transferrable.
     
  23. MrCleanOK

    MrCleanOK Member

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    Girodin,

    I agree with most of your points. With top quality red dot sights, most of the "cons" are negligible. But, that comes at a price. If the OP can't afford, or doesn't want to pay for top quality, then all the different variables become more significant.

    For me, I use and appreciate quality red dot sights, but will also concede that they aren't for everybody.
     
  24. Gun Geezer

    Gun Geezer Member

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    My eyes don't work well enough for irons. Red dots are wonderful!

    Of course, a regular 4X scope would work, too.
     
  25. -v-

    -v- Member

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    I think it depends what you want to do with your rifle. A good RDS does make shooting on the move and snap shooting stupidly easy, so does a good 1-4x scope. I do shoot 3gun from time to time, and what I notice is its a cerebellar reflex to look at a target and line that dot up and squeeze off a round - in layman's terms: I look at a target, think about shooting it, and the rest happens like a knee-jerk reflex. Very very intuitive.

    For casual plinking, if irons work fine for you, why change? Irons are tough, dependable, and I think its easier to make 300+ yard shots with a good set of irons than it is with a dot. A good scope can also be really handy, but they are a little more fragile (except ACOGs) then a RDS, so if you're planning a to be constantly slamming them into hard objects they won't last as long.
     
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