AR-15 or Shotgun...

[MTMilitiaman]

All firearms are as dangerous to the user as anyone else without training. So regardless of what you decide, your family needs to be familiarized with firearms safety and trained how to use them. That being said, I think an AR is easier to train people on.

The shotgun has enough recoil to turn new shooters off and is unpleasant to train to a high degree of proficiency with. It's relatively low magazine capacity means it has to constantly be topped off, and it requires the presence of mind to manually operate without short stroking. Then you have to learn your pattern and you're effective range.

The AR is easier to train new shooters on because it is ergonomic, has low recoil, and it's accurate. With most types of ammunition, it will have a longer effective range than most new shooters can take advantage of. The ARs will be easier to put optics on, and this will make it easier for new shooters to hit under duress.

Both systems will have to be tested for reliability and the users will have to be trained in immediate action.

 

[benEzra]

I was shooting my friends new AR the other day and it had a very unpleasant crack using some kind of odd ball muzzle break. Yes, I was wearing my electronic ear muffs but it was still unpleasant. I can't imagine what it would be like without ear protection.

That's why I would never want a brake of any type on any home-defense firearm.

An unbraked AR in .223 with a 16"-18" barrel is comparable in peak dBA to a 4" barreled 9mm pistol or an unbraked shotgun and far less loud than a .357 revolver. A brake, though, makes an AR sound like a .300 mag or something; one of the most unpleasant guns I've ever shot next to at the range was a 14.5" AR with an aggressive muzzle brake.

Save the brakes for competition guns, IMO, and just get a decent flash suppressor. And it may be just my imagination, but to me a 16" AR with a SEI Vortex FS is less loud from behind the gun than an A2 style FS due to the more forward projection of the muzzle blast, but I have no actual data on that.

 

[Rich Goldsmith]

Ar's I would say with 7.62mmx25mm Tokey chaser.....

 

[Danoobie]

A plentiful supply of earplugs. You ever shoot a rifle or shotgun
inside a small building ?

 

[Nuclear]

I've shot a 16" AR inside a building, and even with one layer of hearing protection, it was loud.

 

[Rocketmedic]

I think you ought to load up on AR15s with genuine ACOGs chambered in wildcat rounds handloaded once a year in the mountains of Montana and designed to humanely kill elk and grizzly at three hundred yards.

 

[entropy]

I think you ought to load up on AR15s with genuine ACOGs chambered in wildcat rounds handloaded once a year in the mountains of Montana and designed to humanely kill elk and grizzly at three hundred yards.

I think you ought to see your psychiatrist about adjusting your meds, that one was out there, even for you!

 

[Rocketmedic]

I think you ought to see your psychiatrist about adjusting your meds, that one was out there, even for you!

Clearly you don't understand sarcasm.

 

[RedlegRick]

If it were me, and knowing my family and where I am, shotguns, hands down. Fortunately, I have a small family and what few friends I still consider already have their own, I'd take the cheapest solution possible.

Too much recoil? Too bad, deal with it and it'd just make them choose their shots carefully. If the sounds harsh, it is, because that's just how I am sometimes. I look at it as I had to plan ahead for your lack of foresight, and you take what's offered and like it.

I'd be leery of handing anyone that careless about their own future a weapon like an AR, because I'd then be responsible for taking the time and trouble of instructing them in its use, at a time when I won't have much to spare. Shotguns are easier to instruct than a rifle, in my opinion.

 

[JO JO]

one thing I find very interesting when I was a kid and shooting with Dad and Uncles and so on we shot 30/06,308,45/70,12GA ,44mag.357mag and 45acp all guns that recoil a bit. In todays world it seems some folks consider .223 and 9mm as max recoiling hard hitting platforms, to me these are the bare minimum light recoiling as you can get unless you go 22lr.
I believe some folks just have no interest in firearms and any type of BANG or recoil will be uncomfortable to them, add that to an unwillingness to go to the range it is an uphill battle and may not workout.
The OP of the post said one of them in his family is a Nurse why not use her knowledge to your advantage and ask her what would she need to build a all purpose medical kit for your family that would be a way better way to spend your money instead of buying something they won't use ?
besides if the OP envisions holding up is his house and surviving prolonged fire fights you and your family will need that Nurse with a med kit faster then you will need a Nurse with a gun,
Surviving a fire fight held up in your home if your family lasts minutes you will be lucky, I bet if it is that bad that a group wants to raid your home you will be falling back with your wounded and that Nurse will be worth her weight in gold,
anyway just my opinion sorry if I got off topic

 

[entropy]

Clearly you don't understand sarcasm.

I certainly do, however, that was a poor attempt at it.

 

[Kevinq6]

I'd probably go with a semi-auto 20-gauge with a red dot for people not familiar with guns but either a shotgun or AR is fine IMO. I also think the red dot optic is more important than the shotgun vs rifle question.

I think handguns are too hard to aim for people to use effectively with little training. I grew up shooting and I found shooting accurately with handguns at the range to be very difficult.

 

[scaatylobo]

OK, this is not one of those "which is better" posts, I just wanted to check the temperature of the room to see what someone else thought about this.

So, my wife works for the CDC and just before that with the Red Cross, one of the Sr. people in the emergency disaster group. I've gotten free passes to many "Emergency Preparedness" classes and courses with some really impressive instructors (people who've been there done that)

I noticed one common thing quite a few of them said and it got me thinking, the phrase was something like "There are a few people who are dear to me who do not have an emergency disaster plan... so I am their emergency disaster plan"

One of the guys gave a perfect example. He has a wife and two kids, so does his sister and brother in-law whom he is very close with. He says when he stores provisions, he stores enough for at least 8 people, to include his sister, brother in-law and two kids. Good guy.

So as I get my prepping house in order, I've noticed a few people (my brother, my wifes mom/step father) know they "should" prepare but it's low on the priority list so I am taking it upon myself get a few security weapons to supply them with should the SHTF. Currently the AR prices are ridiculously low, Deltons for $399, PSA's for $459 and with black friday around the corner, I was considering getting a couple of extras of something that was easy to learn and effective, cheap but reliable and my choices have come down to long guns, primarily an AR or Shotgun. (ie: my mother in law is an emergency room nurse of 7 years and an RN for the past 12 so we are DEFINITELY going to try and keep her safe should things go south.) the mother in-law is also a good 115 lbs soaking wet and she is not a huge fan of guns in general but is smart enough to know she'd need one should some goon come climbing in through her window.

With that in mind, which would you choose if you were getting a couple of extra firearms for loved ones should the worst happen?

Just curious. Thanks

UNLESS they are willing to train,my choice for them would be the cheapest Mosin Nagant bolt action that I could find.

MUCH less likely to have an AD or ND with the least amount of training.

And it was a 'war gun' that did the deeds very well [ ask the dead Germans ].

Otherwise I would say it has to be a variant of a M-4 [ aka AR-15 ].

Easy to shoot ,regardless of your size,and you can carry enough ammo to be worth the weight to gain numbers, imnsho

 

[FROGO207]

I would choose neither. Instead arm them with magazine fed bolt action 22 MAG rifles and a few boxes of ammo. Accurate at a reasonable range and will do the job of SD when needed. Slower use of ammo and low recoil with reasonably easy instructions of use. Couple that with a revolver in 22 MAG and get a pair of them to work as a team. Revolver to get off a couple suppressive shots while the rifle is reloading Those two firearms are in my emergency to go stash along with a few hundred rounds. Add a .22 LR cylinder and brick of .22 ammo and you are good to go in most survival/subsistence scenarios in the lower 48 IMHO.

 

[shiftyer1]

If you shop used you can get 3 or 4 shotguns for the price of 1 ar. They both shine in different areas, the shotgun is much more versatile. If It was my pocketbook i'd get the shotguns and then work on the ar's.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I don't see how the shotgun is more versatile or easier to train with.

The shotgun can take slugs and shot. But all of it is limited to short range and soft targets. I don't see how this adds versatility. The shotgun is manually operated. It will be more mechanically reliable on average, but will require more training from the user. People unfamiliar with them tend to short-stroke them under duress. It can be harder to train on the shotgun because the recoil makes it difficult to do high round count sessions. I've been shooting shotguns since I was twelve. But I've started shooting when I was four and by the time I was twelve in hunter's safety, I had worked my way up to .270 and .30/06, so the 12 gauge wasn't a big leap for me, esp just shooting birdshot. But we are talking about uninitiated shooters here. Starting them off to big or fast is just going to develop bad habits. Additionally, the shotgun needs to be topped off constantly because of its relatively low magazine capacity. This isn't difficult, but again, requires the user to be on top of things. Then the shotgun has to be patterned. Knowing what your shotgun's pattern looks like at various ranges is key to understanding both it's effect and range.

The AR will have to be function tested to ensure reliability. But they are ergonomic and low recoil, so doing this is easy enough. The AR is common enough at this point that anything that is wrong should be easy to fix. The AR is easier to add an optic too and this further increases the easy with which a new shooter can establish a base of proficiency. The AR is more accurate and has a longer effective range. The ability to add load anything from green tips to light varmint rounds make the AR far more versatile than the shotgun. We've been training 19 year olds from all walks of life to use the M4/M16 for 40 years. It is about as easy a system to learn and hit with under duress as it is possible to make with current technology and the civilian market only makes it more so. Both weapon systems will require the user to learn Immediate Action drills, but the AR will require less from the user than the shotgun will and is the more capable platform.

 

[SteveChuck]

OK, this is not one of those "which is better" posts, I just wanted to check the temperature of the room to see what someone else thought about this.

So, my wife works for the CDC and just before that with the Red Cross, one of the Sr. people in the emergency disaster group. I've gotten free passes to many "Emergency Preparedness" classes and courses with some really impressive instructors (people who've been there done that)

I noticed one common thing quite a few of them said and it got me thinking, the phrase was something like "There are a few people who are dear to me who do not have an emergency disaster plan... so I am their emergency disaster plan"

One of the guys gave a perfect example. He has a wife and two kids, so does his sister and brother in-law whom he is very close with. He says when he stores provisions, he stores enough for at least 8 people, to include his sister, brother in-law and two kids. Good guy.

So as I get my prepping house in order, I've noticed a few people (my brother, my wifes mom/step father) know they "should" prepare but it's low on the priority list so I am taking it upon myself get a few security weapons to supply them with should the SHTF. Currently the AR prices are ridiculously low, Deltons for $399, PSA's for $459 and with black friday around the corner, I was considering getting a couple of extras of something that was easy to learn and effective, cheap but reliable and my choices have come down to long guns, primarily an AR or Shotgun. (ie: my mother in law is an emergency room nurse of 7 years and an RN for the past 12 so we are DEFINITELY going to try and keep her safe should things go south.) the mother in-law is also a good 115 lbs soaking wet and she is not a huge fan of guns in general but is smart enough to know she'd need one should some goon come climbing in through her window.

With that in mind, which would you choose if you were getting a couple of extra firearms for loved ones should the worst happen?

Just curious. Thanks

I was/am in the same boat - but with good solid neighbors not so much family members (kids and grandkids live too far away) - in laws and my parents are deceased. But, being retired Army SF, I spent many years learning, practicing and teaching - unconventional warfare. So, I figured I would take it upon myself to develop a small neighborhood security element. I've got 4 ARs, (one is an LR-308). I've got 4 shotguns (all 12ga, 2 pump, 2 dbl barrel). I also have 4 bolt guns (two in .223 Rem and 2 in .308 win). The rest I have are semi auto .22LRs and a couple of nice 30.06 hunting rifles, a .44 Rem Big Boy - Henry and a .270 I use for antelope. To get the security element up to speed - men or women, I would start them on the ARs, then show them basics of Shotguns, finishing with handguns. Handguns are the hardest to teach instinctive shooting to novices. The Army, Marines, Navy and USAF have teaching basic rifle marksmanship down to a science for new recruits. It's an easy platform to teach and and easy weapon to master (if not trying to use in full auto mode).