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ar: 223 vs 308

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by trigga, Nov 18, 2007.

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  1. trigga

    trigga Member

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    i'm a big ar15/m16 fan. i have my mind set on an armalite's ar10 and ar15. i plan on using the gun for deer hunting... what i was curious was will the .223 drop the deer if the shot is placed right, will the .223 be strong enough? i compare the bullet to my 30-06 and it's a lot smaller... with the 30-06 one shot center mass and the deers just drop. only debate is that the ar10 is a lot of $$$ and out of my budget.
     
  2. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Member

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    A 223 is not legal in many places. I think its probably capable for most deer in my area, provided you make an accurate shot and the range is pretty close. That said, I'd recommend just a tad heavier/bigger--I think something a bit more powerful allows for a clean, humane kill even if everything isn't just right.
     
  3. trigga

    trigga Member

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    the regulation here (WI) is:
    barrel length 16" or more, overall 26" or more, center fire of .22 or larger, no fmj, one shot per pull of trigger. my cousin used and ar (.223) last season so i'm pretty sure if it meets the regulations than it would be fine...
    how much bigger is the .223 from the .22? would this be the .22LR round being compared?
     
  4. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    There are AR15s in other calibers that might work better, depending on the distance you plan to hunt.
     
  5. Bartkowski

    Bartkowski Member

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    A .223 is a .22 centerfire. I have heard of many people using .223's and deer with success, you just have to be careful where you hit the deer and only take shots you know you can make.
     
  6. trigga

    trigga Member

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    100 yards max, give of take 25 yards... i don't usually make shots over 100 yards anyways. who makes them in other caliber than the .308 and .223? these are the most common.
     
  7. trigga

    trigga Member

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    one of my rookie friends said he shot a deer with a .22LR (rimfire) with the stinger bullet and with one shot center mass it dropped. now if he would have missed maybe the deer would have ran who knows, a mile? good thing he didn't get caught. is this .223 ideal for 100 yards?
     
  8. Bartkowski

    Bartkowski Member

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    No it is not ideal, but it will work.
     
  9. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    6.8 SPC is becoming quite popular.
     
  10. trigga

    trigga Member

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    so a .223 is pretty much a .22lr on packed in a bigger cartridge and center fire. most deers i hunt and see are under 100 yards so i think i should be fine. do they make any 30 round mags for the ar10? i know they make 25 but i don't like the straight look unless it's a 20 round.
     
  11. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    The 223 is a 22 caliber bullet, but it is not the same bullet that is used in a 22LR.
     
  12. trigga

    trigga Member

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    6.8 SPC, nice i'll put more look into that.
     
  13. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    My brother dropped a buck with a .223 fired from a Rem 700 Varminter. He used either a Barnes X or a Nosler Partition and it mushroomed out. The buck was on hill and it dropped him dead right there. Shot placement is everything.
     
  14. Deer Hunter

    Deer Hunter Member

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    The .223 will work if you do your part, which goes for every other caliber fielded these days as well. There is no magic bullet. If you want to hunt with a .223 and feel yourself comfortable with it, then by all means go ahead. Do not be persuaded into thinking you need the newest WSM to take down a deer. Under 100 yards, a soft-point .223 is plenty for deer.
     
  15. salty

    salty Member

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    trigga - It appears you could benefit from some serious remedial work - I would first get a couple of current reloading manuals and study the ballistics of the various cartridges your are looling at and then hit the computer store to get a new keyboard with a cap key that works. A 223 is not in the same leayge as a 308 - sorry to burst your water balloon.
     
  16. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Member

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    I think a 22lr and .223 are both .224 in actual diameter--but regardless, a 223 is not simply a souped up, higher velocity version of a 22lr. The mass is about double and the velocity is more than doubled, iirc.

    My brother took two last year out with my 223 ar, they went down quicker than the one i hit with a 7.62x39 (but I botched the shot...). But they were little goat sized hill country deer. :)
     
  17. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    Most states have a magazine capacity possibly only for semi's but make sure...Although, I'm thinking if you can't drop a deer with 29 rounds then maybe you should brush up on your marksmanship. A .308 will drop a deer with one shot, I assure you.
     
  18. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    I have a couple of AR10s; they are heavy beasties when compared to an AR15. I think that an AR-15 in 7.62x39 or 6.8SPC would be just the ticket; suitable for hunting, and you can get legally blocked mags for both.
     
  19. trigga

    trigga Member

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    the 30 round is for range purposes, wouldn't mind taking it hunting. i called the dnr the other day referring to my glock 22 for deer hunting and mention 15 shots, they said it was fine. i've seen people using banana clips before.
     
  20. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    Something doesn't jive. What state are you in? ...and why on earth would you ask about hunting deer with a .40S&W? I think they misunderstood and were referring to using it as a sidearm for protection while deer hunting. The magazines you saw may or may not have been legal, or they might have been blocked to accept the legal limit.
     
  21. trigga

    trigga Member

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    i explained it to the warden, he said it was fine and he was aware that the glock 22 held 15 round. all it says in the regulation was the barrel had to be 5.5" or larger from muzzle to firing pin action closed, at least 18 years of age to use, no concealed weapons, and center fire of .22 or larger. so i called twice and got the same answer from two people so i'm pretty sure. all i had to do was buy a 1.52" longer barrel to make it legal. don't worry, i bought a 6". i carry it because my 30-06 sometimes jam randomly. (remington 7400) no complaints yet. now with that being said, i don't see why i can't use it as a primary or secondary, but yes it's only for back up.
     
  22. jakeswensonmt

    jakeswensonmt Member

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    Not really. They both use a .22 caliber barrel, that's about where the similarities end.

    The .22lr is a 36 grain bullet traveling at maybe 1200 fps with about 120 ft/lb of energy, accurate to about 100 yards but not a lot more, and energy levels drop precipitously beyond 100 yards. It's good for hunting squirrel, but you might want something more for varmints raccoon sized or larger.

    The .223 is a 55+ grain bullet traveling at maybe 3000+ fps, and 1200+ ft/lb of energy, on the order of 10 times that of the 22lr. The wound channel created by the 223 is disproportionately large, as the bullet tends to yaw (roll) and fragment upon impact. Civilian .223 bullets can also use hollow points, which increases wounding. It's trajectory is nearly flat out to 200 yards, and it's accurate well beyond that. A well-placed .223 will drop a man or a deer in a single shot.
     
  23. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    What state are you in?
     
  24. trigga

    trigga Member

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    wisconsin, madison to be exact.
     
  25. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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