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AR ammo question

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by DustyVermonter, Feb 21, 2011.

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  1. DustyVermonter

    DustyVermonter Member

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    Is Hornady TAP 75gr .223 a suitable HD ammo option for an AR? I was told by one guy that it would be great for HD in an AR as long as your effective range doesn't exceed 50yrds or so, but a different guy told me something about the headspacing and that the 75gr was too big for an AR. I don't know, I'm new to the game and am inclined to concur with the vast majority so please chime in.
     
  2. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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    According to Hornady, it is specifically designed for HD. It should be fine in any AR. I could see a problem with it fitting in the mags, but I sincerely doubt that it won't fit in standard mags. I doubt he was really talking about headspace, even if that is what he said.

    Give Hornady a call in the morning and get it right from the horse's mouth.
     
  3. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    I don't know about home defense, but if I recall, the Hornady 75 gr TAP is loaded with there boat tail hollow point. It's the 75gr A-Max that is too long to fit into the magazine of an AR when loaded to spec.

    FYI, as far as I know, there is no headspace issue with the 75gr A-Max. It's just that the bullet is so long that a loaded round will not fit into a magazine. You can shoot them, but have to load them one at a time.
     
  4. TeamPrecisionIT

    TeamPrecisionIT Member

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    It'll fit in the mag, cycle the gun, headspace properly and shoot great. Its just not cheap.

    Damian
     
  5. DustyVermonter

    DustyVermonter Member

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    Well I just loaded 10 into a usgi mag with no problems at all, but definitely, if that bullet was a fraction of a measurement longer, there would be an issue.

    So do you think it would be a safe bet to load a mag or two to keep on hand for wcs(worst case scenario)
     
  6. BushyGuy

    BushyGuy Member

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    55gr FMJ or 50gr JHP are best for SD and home defense. thr 75-77 gr might have a little bit overpenetration, while the M193 or 50 gr JHP will fragment sooner at short range then the heavier bullets.

    the heavier bullets are suitable for longer range SD . TAP bullets are great for barrier penetration is why police use those bullets in their AR's
     
  7. Tim the student

    Tim the student Member

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  8. DustyVermonter

    DustyVermonter Member

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    @ Tim the student: Thanks for clearing that up for me. I've had a pretty cloudy perception of that term for some time now, pretty simple actually.
     
  9. JustinJ

    JustinJ Member

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    77 grain is the longest that will fit in an ar mag. Whoever told you 75 grain tap is good only up to 50 yards is plain wrong.
     
  10. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Member

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    The barrel twist well determine the ammo your AR likes.

    50923489.jpg
     
  11. 68wj

    68wj Member

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    TAP was created for LE applications. Aside from sniper use, the round is primarily for the AR platform so that shouldn't be an issue. 50 yds???? Don't take any more advice from him.

    http://www.hornadyle.com/
     
  12. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    Not to get off on a tangent here, but a couple of generalized references have been made to weight of bullets and the ability to run them in an AR.

    It isn't about the weight. It's about the length. Any round that is over 2.260" overall length (sometimes shorter) won't fit into an AR magazine and this applies to the 75gr A-Max.
     
  13. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    I work in law enforcement, and my personal AR at home is stuffed with Hornady 75gr TAP ammo.
     
  14. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    madcratebuilder, interesting Venn diagram; but my own experience has been that 1:7 twist will handle all they way down to 45gr just fine. It may go lower than that; but that is the lightest I've fired out of it.

    As for what makes the best self-defense ammo for an AR15, this is a good link on the subject:
    http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

    Note that training and ability to place rounds accurately is going to be much, much, more important than the ammo used.
     
  15. M1key

    M1key Member

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    50 yards?

    All of my 1:9 ARs (16in and 20in ) will shoot the 75gr Hornady just fine out to 200yds, with accuracy. No keyholes, just nice consistent-sized groups hitting center of mass. They shoot them so well, the 1:7 Colt sits in the safe. :cool:


    M
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  16. HOLY DIVER

    HOLY DIVER Member

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    saw a very interesting show the other day. they tested common rds used for HD 2 see if they would go through several walls and exit your house and possibly harm a innocent person and not the bad guy...i may be forgetting a few but here goes these went through 4 walls and kept trucking,9mm,357 mag,12ga 00buckshot. the 45acp went through 3 walls......here is the very interesting part .223 FMJ went through 1 wall and completely fragmented and just peppered the 2nd so yea u could use the 75gr TAP but i think it will over penetrate i recommend 55grain hollow points
     
  17. Motega

    Motega Member

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    Why on Earth would anyone choose a rifle for home defense?!! Shotgun with 00 buck please. Even if I lived alone on 100 acres I wouldn't consider a rifle for HD... having shot deer etc at under 30 yards with a hollow point 30-06 I can tell you that it makes pencil sized holes that allow for LOTS of response time from the target.
    The only argument I can see is lots of rounds to fire- which translates into a swiss-cheese house. I hitch my wagon to 4 rounds of 00 law enforcement buck shot in a tac-modded SG (just a light and adjustable stock).
    Being startled awake by some meth-crazed puke I'll take a nice cone of buckshot TYVM.
     
  18. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Because a lot of people can handle a rifle a lot better, and deliver more metal on target. There are a lot of options, what might be right for you won't work for everyone.

    My primary is a shotgun loaded with #4 buck. My wife's primary is an M-1 carbine.
     
  19. arizona98tj

    arizona98tj Member

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    Just curious.....have you taken a good 3 or 4 day carbine course? If you have, I can't believe you would ask that question. If you haven't, you need to.
     
  20. Steve in PA

    Steve in PA Member

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    He's the same guy that doesn't know how to use the charging handle of his rifle.

    A human being is NOT a deer. What a deer would shrug off would kill a human. A rifle round carries a lot more energy that a handgun round, a rifle round (especially in .223 and depending on bullet) penetrates a lot less in things like interior walls than a handgun round, a long gun tends to be able to be handled better than a handgun, etc. Also, where in the case of a rifle, I am firing one projectile when I pull the trigger. In the case of 00 buckshot, you are firing multiple projectiles. Need I go on??


    Like the other person said, go take a carbine course then come back and gives us your thoughts.
     
  21. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Barrel TWIST -- one revolution in so many inches of projectile moving down the barrel, i.e., 1 revolution in 9 inches, or 1:9 -- is a major determining factor in projectile weight.

    If you try to push too heavy a projectile down a barrel with a slow spin rate, the bullet is likely to shoot large groups, that is, if the bullet even reaches the target without tumbling (causing key-holes at, say, 100 yards or more).

    A 1:9 twist rate will accept 55 grain up to about 62 grain. Heavier than 62 grain and you most likely will need a faster twist -- more like 1:8 or even 1:7.

    One problem with the faster twist rates (say, 1:7) is that they tend to wear the barrel out more quickly than a slower twist rate. Typically, you don't get a "free-ride" as, for every "pro" that we can come up with, there are usually "cons."
     
  22. BADUNAME37

    BADUNAME37 Member

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    Not necessarily so, please cite your source(s).

    I must disagree, not all rifle rounds carry a lot more energy than handgun rounds.

    Not necessarily so. Please cite.

    Again, please cite your source(s). I disagree that, in close quarters, i.e., inside a typical house, a handgun is much easier to handle and is much less awkward to handle than their long counterparts!

    A .410 rifled slug is a single projectile that could have very similar penetration as certain pistol ammunition! There are, of course, others that I could list, but I do not have the time right now to do so.

    No, take a Pistol Course AND a Rifle Course so you can compare the two!
     
  23. bpl

    bpl Member

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    I'm sure that the 75gr TAP will work fine, but my understanding is the lighter 5.56x45mm loads at higher velocity will fragment well and have less wall penetration. I have 55gr TAP and 55gr XM-193 FMJ loaded up for mine.
     
  24. Ithaca37

    Ithaca37 Member

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    Over penetration is not nearly the issue that under-penetration or lack of fragmentation is. 75gr TAP is a fine round, but I prefer barrier rounds like MK318.

    The issue is not accuracy, it is fragmentation. Reliable fragmentation (and terminal performance) relies on a minimum velocity (2250fps for the hornady 75gr OTM I believe). What limits the effective range is the velocity it can achieve coming out of your barrel and how far it can travel before it drops below 2250fps.

    Hornady TAP FPD 75gr OTM will retain fragmentation performance to about 115 yards when fired from a 16" barrel. This is based on chrono data obtained by Molon over at AR15.com.


    XM193 shows inconsistent fragmentation. There is a great deal of variation in the bullet yaw during flight. This causes the angle of attack when it hits the target to vary which leads to inconsistent results (no fragmentation results in a wound not terribly different from 22lr).

    Hornady TAP 55gr is a varmint round and will not provide adequate penetration to guarantee results. I do not understand why hornady markets it as defensive ammo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  25. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    This is wrong.

    The major determining factor of the required twist to stabilize a projectile is its length, NOT its weight. This is why many rifles with slower (not slow) twist rates do OK with most 75 and 77gr bullets, but won't shoot the A-Maxes well at all. The A-Max is a very long bullet.

    I have a 14.5" Bushmaster barrel with a 1:9 twist. It shoots 77gr SMKS alright. I also have a Remington 700 in .223 with a 1:9 twist and it does OK with 77gr projectiles as well. It just does better with 69s and under.
     
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