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AR bedroom gun

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Jacob Staff, Feb 22, 2007.

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  1. Jacob Staff

    Jacob Staff Member

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    I am interested in useing an AR15 carbine as my primary home defence gun. I will add a light and maybe an Eotech and/or night sights.

    My main concern is I have young children in the home. I could lock the AR in the safe during the day and take it out at night and lock the bedroom door but this is not a good solution for me.

    I want to keep it locked up and have it somewhat readily available. I'm thinking a rack above the door that has a quick release locking system. Anybody know of such a thing?

    Any ideas would be welcome.

    Jake
     
  2. scurtis_34471

    scurtis_34471 Member

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    I plan to use my new AK that way too. I'm going to get a quick access handgun safe for the bedroom that will contain my primary pistol and a loaded mag for the AK. The rest of my guns and ammo will be locked up in a gun safe. That means I can safely leave the AK out, because there will be no means for anyone to load it without getting into on of the safes. Seems like a good idea anyway. I still have to implement on it.
     
  3. BrainOnSigs

    BrainOnSigs Member

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    You are going to be shooting at BGs with an AR in a house with children in other rooms?

    You plan on using frangible ammo?
     
  4. SnakeEater

    SnakeEater Member

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    I'd hazard to say that most people don't load their home defense handgun with frangible ammo. You're aware that 9mm, .40, .45 etc. have greater penetration through walls than 5.56 aren't you?
     
  5. Jacob Staff

    Jacob Staff Member

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    I am still researching the idea.

    I keep hearing that the AR is starting to replace the shotgun for home defense and that it will penetrate less than 9mm or .45 ACP with the right ammo (still looking for a credible source of this). A shotgun with bird shot may be better option.

    The idea of a carbine is attractive because I have kids in the house. I will have greater percision than a pistol or shotgun.

    Currently I have a electronic lock mini-safe by the bed for a pistol. A carbine may turn out not the be a good option. I would still like to find a way to lock up a rifle or shotgun and still have it relatively easy to access.

    Jake
     
  6. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Member

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    The quick-access thing is tough. GunVault sells an electronic push-button bracket that you can use to lock up a "long gun," but may not fit AR's. See this THR thread. You may need to go the route of scurtis_34471.

    As for ammo testing, here is a good link to one guy's experiments. Very popular at AR15.com: http://www.theboxotruth.com/
     
  7. scurtis_34471

    scurtis_34471 Member

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    I have seen quick access safes that mount in a standard wall designed to hold a single shotgun or rifle.
     
  8. mattw

    mattw Member

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    I'm going to save you alot of posts and just say that you are wrong. Never consider birdshot a viable home defense round. At the very least I would suggest No. 4 buck shot. If you are serious move up to 00 Buck.
     
  9. JShirley

    JShirley Administrator Staff Member

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    I tested several 9mm and .40 loads, as well as 50-grain Federal American Eagle .223 in water. The .223 penetrated less.

    Any of the .223 lightweight varmint rounds should have low penetration in tissue, but don't take my word for it: go buy a few jugs of water, and test this yourself. You can satisfy yourself that this is the case for less than $10 in test media. (Penetration in water will be about 60% deeper than in ballistic gel.) Penetration should be at least into the second water jug to be deep enough to stop an advancing human threat- if not, look into another brand, and save the shallow-pen stuff for genuine varmints or punching paper.

    Oh- birdshot is a bad idea.

    John
     
  10. billhilly66

    billhilly66 Member

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  11. michael_aos

    michael_aos Member

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  12. romma

    romma Member

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    45 grain JHP for less penetration and effective wound channeling! :)
     
  13. Plink

    Plink Member

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    Birdshot at typical home defense range is devastating. Ever see those old county road signs that some yahoo shot with a shotgun? It's invariably peppered with birdshot but not really damaged, then the yahoo decided to shoot closer and the birdshot puts a fist sized hole through the sign. Up close, birdshot acts a lot like a slug. Try shooting it at water soaked phone books or what have you, at the typical distances you'd encounter in a home. It's not good much farther than that, but up close, it's more than enough.

    Personally, I tend to use low pressure rounds for anything indoor related. If you want a rifle, I'd suggest a carbine in .45 ACP. Same with a handgun. If you've ever touched off a high pressure round in an enclosed area, you understand why I make the recommendation.
     
  14. Jacob Staff

    Jacob Staff Member

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    Looks like Hornady T.A.P. comes in 55, 60 and 75 gr. for .223

    http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=149

    Is the 55 gr. light enough?

    No birdshot-check


    So what do ya'll think about frangible ammo? In .223 just use a light bullet instead?

    What about for pistols? Frangible or hollow point?

    I need to find the balance between stopping a zombie and not going through a wall. Has frangible ammo gotten to that point?
     
  15. BrainOnSigs

    BrainOnSigs Member

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    Not from what I can tell. I have seen them all blow from one end of a house to the other thru mulitple walls....only stopping at the cinder block. I have shot .223 thru several layers of pine and it zips right thru it. I know that 00 buck will not go as quite as far as the 9mm, 40, 45 and 223/5.56.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2007
  16. michael_aos

    michael_aos Member

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    I'm no expert, but I do do have an AR-15 in the bedroom.

    Based on my understanding, energy figures for a projectile are based on weight and velocity.

    In the case of .223, a large portion of its energy comes from the velocity component.

    When a .223 hits something, it dumps its energy into the object and slows down a lot. If it goes through the object, it's now moving a lot slower -- and has a lot less energy. Presumably that means it wouldn't do as much damage to the next thing it hits.

    That's my $.02.

    Mike
     
  17. scurtis_34471

    scurtis_34471 Member

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    I am personally considering a box of Glazers in 7.62x39 for home defense. Zero chance of wall penetration combined with good stopping power. Other than cost, I see no downside.
     
  18. boerseun

    boerseun Member

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    Personally, I would just stick with a good shotgun and buckshot - but I have also heard that the .223 round has less penetration through drywall than pistol rounds - I reserve my personal opinion on this, however. I've seen .223 go through clay bricks with no issue - maybe the softer medium messes up the ballistics faster?

    If you do go with the AR, I would agree with the above posters. Keep the magazine in a quick access handgun safe and the carbine next to the bed.
    My personal setup may not be the best, but I have a "biometric" safe. It scans my boogerhook print and then opens up - no fumbling with codes. It is strong enough to keep the kids away from the handguns during the night. If I leave the house for longer than a day, all weapons go in the big safe.
     
  19. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Statisically speaking securing the weapon from your kids will be of greater
    concern than penetration of your walls and accidentally hitting them.

    I would recommend a handgun in one of those finger-button under the bed
    safes.
     
  20. michael_aos

    michael_aos Member

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    I've always been of the opinion long-guns are "safer" with kids because it's harder to accidentally shoot yourself.

    Mike
     
  21. Jacob Staff

    Jacob Staff Member

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  22. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    If there is one rule of penetration you should remember, it is that you do not want to defend yourself from a potential threat of death or serious injury with something that won't penetrate two sheets of drywall.

    Remember, you can always use Airsoft if overpenetration is your only concern. Unfortunately, in order to reliably incapacitate someone physiologically, you must penetrate deeply enough to strike the central nervous system or large blood bearing organs. If you are squared off face-to-face with someone, then maybe 4-6" of penetration is sufficient for that.

    However, have someone turn sideways and what do you have in the way now? Arms. Have someone point a firearm back at you? Arms, wood, metal blocking most of the head and upper chest. What happens when a light shot load (like birdshot or Glasers) hits an arm on its way to the chest cavity. Well, the shot breaks up into tiny pieces that quickly lose momentum and most cannot overcome the elasticity of the skin on the other side. Only a few pieces of shot penetrate into the torso and they don't penetrate anywhere near enough to be useful. The arm wound will be nasty; but if they stop afterwards it will be because they wanted to, not because they had to.

    The best way to handle penetration concerns is not to miss the intended target. Know your background within your house and plan around it now. If you are going to use reduced-penetration loads, keep in mind their limitations and have a backup plan.
     
  23. arthurcw

    arthurcw Member

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    as to storage...

    American Rifleman had a small write up in this month's issue about the Vline Closet Vault.

    http://www.vlineind.com/html/closet_vault.html

    Very similar to the one already listed in this thread. It goes in between studs for a more flush fit.
     
  24. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    Anyone else have that "closet valut"? Looks pretty good. Biggest concern is installation.
     
  25. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    I thought long about a HD gun. Finally settled on a Colt 6933, sporting an 11.5" barrel capped with an AAC Omni silencer and fed hot 77gr ammo: overall compact enough for indoor maneuvering, quiet enough to shoot indoors without severe hearing problems, still gutsy enough for reliable terminal effects, and relatively minimized wall penetration.

    [​IMG]

    Now need that closet safe to stick it in.
     
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