mljdeckard
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Not if you clean to the point of damaging it. Read ALL of the comic page.
AR Cleaning
- Thread starter miamivicedade
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RockyMtnTactical
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Dirty AR15's work fine when they are properly lubed.
fyrfytr
Member
Just thinking that with failures in the past in mind, and cleanliness issues as part of the problem, the solution became to clean the rifles excesively. That was all. When has the government ever bothered with facts?
Overcleaning has pretty much always been part of the military's routine, even dating back to the days of the musket. They'd use brick powder (softer than today's bricks, though) to scour the muskets to shininess. This also caused excess wear.
W.E.G.
Member
Time magazine
Friday, Sep. 08, 1967
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,899755,00.html
Despite repeated denials, the Pentagon reversed itself last week and admitted publicly that its new lightweight rifle, the M16, does indeed have jamming troubles beyond those caused by lack of proper maintenance by G.I.s (TIME, June 9). Though the jamming is less severe than some of the rifle's critics claimed, its malfunction is serious enough for the Defense Department to order modification of all of the services' rifles, including approximately 135,000 in Viet Nam, where it is the basic infantry weapon.
The root of the trouble is the powder for the M-16's .233-cal. ammunition.
Small but magnum-loaded, the round is one of the most cantankerous in the history of American small-arms. Since 1964, when the Army was informed that Du Pont could not mass-produce the nitrocellulose-based powder within the specifications demanded by the M16, Olin Mathieson Company has supplied most ammunition for the rifle with a high-performance ball propellant of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerine.
Known as Olin WC 846, the new powder is capable of firing an M-16 round at the desired 3,300 ft. per sec. and has unexpectedly increased the rifle's automatic rate of fire from about 850 shots a minute to 1,000. The result is that the "little black rifle," as the M-16 is fearfully called by the Viet Cong, tends to jam because the powder leaves behind a dirty residue that clogs the faster-moving automatic parts.
To solve the problem, the Army for the past nine months has been outfit ting all M-16s with a new buffer system that slows the rate of fire back to 650 to 850 bullets per minute, thereby reducing the propensity to jam. In closerange fighting, a jam can be fatal. Tests with the WC 846 ball propellant show that a buffer-equipped M-16 now jams approximately only once every 4,000 shots. According to the Army's criteria, one jam every 1,001 rounds is acceptable. To compensate for the debris left behind by the new powder, all M-16s now being produced have chromium-plated chambers that are less likely to cause jamming and are easier to keep clean.
Generally, the M-16 rates high praise from the men in Viet Nam, who find its light weight (7.6 Ibs.) and rapid rate of fire ideal for jungle warfare. With proper maintenance, which will always be necessary to prevent jamming, the fighting men in Viet Nam should also find it a lethally reliable friend in need.
scythefwd
Member
You can clean an M16 so that your glove comes out white. Then you hit it with CLP and a week later the glove will come out black.
I cleaned my M16 and M249 till I got a CLEAN patch every time I fired it, took it to the field, and every couple of days down range. I still had jamming issues down range, but that was from improper lube, not dirt. My rifles had a lot of rounds through them, and were cleaned a lot. That didn't stop me from making a 196/205 <? on second number> for my SAW quals and a 37/40 on my M16 quals. You MAY damage your arm by cleaning it improperly, but cleaning it every time till it is clean will not guarantee that your rifle will be damaged by cleaning.
EDIT - My unit issued otis cleaning kits, so we didn't run the risk of damaging bore or crown with a cleaning rod.
I cleaned my M16 and M249 till I got a CLEAN patch every time I fired it, took it to the field, and every couple of days down range. I still had jamming issues down range, but that was from improper lube, not dirt. My rifles had a lot of rounds through them, and were cleaned a lot. That didn't stop me from making a 196/205 <? on second number> for my SAW quals and a 37/40 on my M16 quals. You MAY damage your arm by cleaning it improperly, but cleaning it every time till it is clean will not guarantee that your rifle will be damaged by cleaning.
EDIT - My unit issued otis cleaning kits, so we didn't run the risk of damaging bore or crown with a cleaning rod.
noob_shooter
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AR's don't need cleaning.. It's like an AK.. put it in dirt and will fire fine.. hahaha j/k
hatchetbearer
Member
I guessed that we were taught to clean rifles the way we did in boot camp to teach us attention to detail. if a marine's uniform has to be perfect, so should his rifle. ill be damned i could ever figure out how to clean behind the locking lugs. for the battalion inspection we covered the uppers and lowers in dish soap and blasted them with a garden hose. sure as hell got them clean. afterwards we dried them, oiled them and then hung them on the racks.
scythefwd
Member
hatchetbearer .... pipe cleaners... lots of pipe cleaners.
hatchetbearer
Member
if only we rated those... we had to make due with medical q-tips we "liberated" from our doc.
scythefwd
Member
I brought my own 
skidooman603
Member
+1 on Q-Tips and Otis. I NEVER EVER clean ANYTHING from the muzzle.
scythefwd
Member
skidooman - if only otis came with a good chamber brush and a rod stiff enough to use it
Oh, and a stiff bristled nylon toothbrush
Oh, and a stiff bristled nylon toothbrush
skidooman603
Member
Point taken
caveman379
Member
I use breakfree as a cleaner/lubricator sparingly before and after a day at the range. Less than 10 minutes and put my babies back in my safe. No one ever tought me I just assume keep everything lubed to prevent rusting our fouling and keep the bolt group working smoothly. I figure in a system that blows gas around the gun who gives a turkey if it becomes black. Just keep everything lubed. That is only my opinion.
jdh
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- Jan 5, 2008
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- 1,375
Call me a cheater. I left my squad in front of the arms room scrubbing away with the issued nylon brushes, pipe cleaners, tooth picks, and cotton swabs while I went back to the platoon office (RHIP) and blasted away with the spray cleaner on hand at the time then lubed it up with LSA (yes I said LSA not CLP). It took the grease monkeys from the motor pool awhile to figure out where their break/carb cleaner sprays were disappearing to. I passed the armorer's inspection first time every time and if he knew how he never said a word.
DMK
Member
I use brake parts cleaner on my guns all the time. It works great.
It will strip every bit of oil and paint off too(doesn't seem to hurt GunKote though). Use carefully and make sure to relube the gun well. It's my understanding that AR15s like to run a little wet.
janobles14
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- Apr 22, 2008
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- 1,095
this is what i was trying to articulate! i want my weapons spotless but i dont ding crowns or drop out trigger groups. but you can eat off any of them.
Funny, because that same advice has given others incredibly reliable rifles with VERY few failures in 10,000+ rounds.
A local trainer ran over 10,000 through his M&P 5.45 shooting ONLY corrosive ammo and NEVER cleaned it. Didn't have any issues short of a couple hard primers.
I think it's safe to say that the AR's we have in our hands today are not built exactly like the M16's built 40 years ago.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Here is the typical military cleaning regiment I experienced.
1. The armorer wants a "white-glove" clean weapon, for the reasons already outlined above and because while defining "functionally clean" is difficult to do in an objective manner, everybody knows what "white-glove" clean is.
2. It is a direct impingement weapon. Getting it functionally clean is no problem. Getting it white glove clean using something like CLP and nothing else is a major chore because CLP pulls carbon out of places you never knew it existed.
3. The way we fixed that is to use brake/carb cleaner or Tide and hot water to completely degrease the weapon. We would also use really aggressive and unsanctioned cleaning techniques (bore/chamber brisjes in a drill chuck, etc.)
4. After this, we would not relubricate the weapon because that would just pull more carbon out and cause it to fail inspection. The weapons would be stored dry as a bone.
When the dry, improperly cleaned weapon was pulled from the armory next, it might occasionally fail to work well because of damage, corrosion (no protectant) or no lube (and because most often it was being used with blanks which are a whole different category of dirt and function issues). The solution for this was typically even more fanatical cleaning.
The other thing to keep in mind is that a weapon being used hard can be maintained with a pretty minimum level of attention; but a weapon being stored for several months after being used hard is probably going to need a little more love.
1. The armorer wants a "white-glove" clean weapon, for the reasons already outlined above and because while defining "functionally clean" is difficult to do in an objective manner, everybody knows what "white-glove" clean is.
2. It is a direct impingement weapon. Getting it functionally clean is no problem. Getting it white glove clean using something like CLP and nothing else is a major chore because CLP pulls carbon out of places you never knew it existed.
3. The way we fixed that is to use brake/carb cleaner or Tide and hot water to completely degrease the weapon. We would also use really aggressive and unsanctioned cleaning techniques (bore/chamber brisjes in a drill chuck, etc.)
4. After this, we would not relubricate the weapon because that would just pull more carbon out and cause it to fail inspection. The weapons would be stored dry as a bone.
When the dry, improperly cleaned weapon was pulled from the armory next, it might occasionally fail to work well because of damage, corrosion (no protectant) or no lube (and because most often it was being used with blanks which are a whole different category of dirt and function issues). The solution for this was typically even more fanatical cleaning.
The other thing to keep in mind is that a weapon being used hard can be maintained with a pretty minimum level of attention; but a weapon being stored for several months after being used hard is probably going to need a little more love.
Sport45
Member
The military has a bigger budget than I do. They probably don't care if they have to replace parts or a barrel or three because they were worn out by overzealous cleaning.
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