AR Question

[Old Grumpy]

I am just starting to load for my AR (.223 Remington) and is preparation I'm working up some range brass. Mixed headstamps, some reloads, and a lot of "onced fired" (because the primers are crimped in place).

So in an attempt to be forewarned as to what brass presents what problems I asked some fellow reloaders. One specifically instructed me to "scrap" any with FC 223 Rem on them. He states when he reloaded them 10% would have the primers "fall out and into the trigger mechanism."

Is this even physically possible? The primer would have to back completely out when the round was fired. I would think the extractor would hold the cartridge head against the breech block close enough to prevent the primer from coming completely out.

If I follow his advice I'll be tossing close to 900 cases just because of the headstamp.

What are your thoughts and experiences with FC brass?

Grumpy

 

[Blade First]

"I would think the extractor would hold the cartridge head against the breech block close enough to prevent the primer from coming completely out."

Nope...I've repaired two ARs this year alone which were jammed by spent primers in the FCG. Can't help you with your decision, though. That's a lot of cases.

 

[farmerboy78]

You will be able to tell when you try to reprime the brass. If it's bad it won't have resistance when being pressed in. Use a swain die also, not a reamer.

 

[briansmithwins]

He states when he reloaded them 10% would have the primers "fall out and into the trigger mechanism."

Is this even physically possible?

Yes, it happens and I've personally seen it.

BSW

 

[Ranger Roberts]

You would probably get a lot more advice in the reloading section, you might want to ask a mod to move this for you.

To answer your question, yes, it definitely happens. 10% seems like a high estimate to me. Like farmerboy78 said, you should be able to tell when you reprime.

 

[cougar1717]

No need to throw away FC cases, but when prepping them, use a handheld priming tool. You should be able to feel the ones that take a scary light effort to "seat". Just put those in a separate bin and deprime them at the end to recover the primers. Toss the brass in a bin to recycle.

 

[Old Grumpy]

You will be able to tell when you try to reprime the brass. If it's bad it won't have resistance when being pressed in. Use a swain die also, not a reamer.

farmerboy78, I use a swager from C&H and I get a pretty good idea how much resistance the crimp takes to remove (compared to no resistance in uncrimped brass). About 70 to 75% of the FC cases had pretty good crimps to them, so hopefully those will hold the primers reasonably well for at least the first reloading.

Grumpy

 

[Old Grumpy]

No need to throw away FC cases, but when prepping them, use a handheld priming tool. You should be able to feel the ones that take a scary light effort to "seat". Just put those in a separate bin and deprime them at the end to recover the primers. Toss the brass in a bin to recycle.

cougar1717, Sounds like a good idea. I don't shoot my AR all that much, just picking up some extra brass before the election, so I should have enough even if I toss a hundred or so.

Grumpy

 

[Welding Rod]

I have shot a lot of reloaded 223 in my ARs and never had a primer pop - though I did have that with my 308 ar using new factory ammo (black hills). Totally locked the gun up when the primer prevented the hammer from being able to move fully rearward.

The problem I have had with federal brass from the 52 grain hp econobox packages sold at Walmart is a fair number of case necks split on the first firing, so I wouldn't even think of reloading those. But I image that brass is likely different than than stuff they use for their higher end loads.

 

[Walkalong]

One specifically instructed me to "scrap" any with FC 223 Rem on them. He states when he reloaded them 10% would have the primers "fall out and into the trigger mechanism."

That is a reloading problem, not a brass problem. Scrap any case where the primer seats too easily. Pop out the new primer, scrap the case, and reuse the primer.

Fed .223 brass is softer than some and will fail sooner with hot loads. Either the fellow was using cases that needed to be scrapped, or he was loading too hot, or both.

Either way, Fed .223 brass is just fine as long as you use the normal care in inspecting them prior to use. I have gotten 8+ firings from them with just under max loads. Hot loads will not fiar as well, but it is up to the reloader to realize when to scrap them.

 

[RainDodger]

When I'm priming 5.56, if a primer seats even a tiny bit lightly, I mark the base of the case with a sharpie and never load the case again. If I feel nearly zero resistance, I scrap the case immediately. That being said, I wouldn't just toss 900 cases without first priming them. You may only have a few with loose primer pockets. Good advice from Walkalong!

 

[carbine85]

I throw away brass all the time including FC. I also don't try to reload brass dozens of times like many do. I can tell when a pocket is loose with my brass and simply grab the case and toss it.
I'm typically left unimpressed with Federal Ammo and the brass for the 5.56 and .308

 

[kimberkid]

I bought some ZQ1 62 grain 223 from Walmart & have had 6-7 out of 100 rounds loose their primers in recoil and fall into the fcg so I only shoot it in bolt guns

 

[MachIVshooter]

No need to throw away FC cases, but when prepping them, use a handheld priming tool. You should be able to feel the ones that take a scary light effort to "seat". Just put those in a separate bin and deprime them at the end to recover the primers. Toss the brass in a bin to recycle.

This.

I bought some ZQ1 62 grain 223 from Walmart & have had 6-7 out of 100 rounds loose their primers in recoil and fall into the fcg so I only shoot it in bolt guns

I find that hard to believe, given the stout 3-point crimp they put on those.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

He states when he reloaded them 10% would have the primers "fall out and into the trigger mechanism." Is this even physically possible?

Yes it is possible. The primer pocket doesn't hold on to the primer tight enough. When the cartridge detonates the primer moves rearward and stops against the bolt face. Somehow it adheres to the bolt face and when the cartridge is ejected, the primer stays on the bolt face for a second or two extra. It typically then falls into the trigger area and causes other problems.

FC brass has some of the softest primer pockets of any brass I have worked with.

 

[243winxb]

Its possible with hot loads. DPMS Molded Receiver Rug AR-15 Mil-Spec Trigger Rubber . https://www.midwayusa.com/product/970550/dpms-molded-receiver-rug-ar-15-mil-spec-trigger-rubber-red Discontinued

 

[kimberkid]

I bought some ZQ1 62 grain 223 from Walmart & have had 6-7 out of 100 rounds loose their primers in recoil and fall into the fcg so I only shoot it in bolt guns

I find that hard to believe, given the stout 3-point crimp they put on those.

I suppose you can doubt it all you want ... I've had problems with it in both my belt fed and mags as well so while you have your doubts I have my experience.

It is crimped but I wouldn't call it a hard crimp, notice a lot of the crimps don't actually extend to the primer. I bought 1200 rounds of it and I've shot 200 rounds ... I've also tried reloading it and if I cut the crimp the primers will barely seat and/or fall out when they drop into the bin (I reload with a Dillon 550B) so I no longer even try to reload them.

 

[morcey2]

I had never reloaded FC brass in 223, but I bought ammo that I thought would be LC brass but it turned out to be FC. When I was processing the brass after shooting it, I had 3 that were missing primers. 2 of the primers were sitting in the bottom of the backpack I used to collect brass but I'm not sure where the other one is. Thankfully it isn't in the FCG of that gun. I scrapped the whole lot. (I think it was only 30 cases). Again, they were factory rounds, not reloads.

Matt

 

[243winxb]

223 Web area Currently not a problem.

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=34912.0 And another link. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/276154_.html&page=1 Its is no longer a problem. If it ever was. Maximum loading in any caliber can cause problems. Brass life can be as short as 3 loading at maximum pressures.

[/URL][/IMG] Has never been a problem for me.

 

[TBJK]

Just make sure you swage it instead of cutting the primer pocket unless you are extremely careful not to cut too much of the crimp.

 

[Old Grumpy]

I plan on completing the work-up, trimming it to length, and priming it. Any rounds that prime "soft" will get separated for lost brass plinking. If the primer "falls" into place (with very little or no resistance) they will be culled out, primers recovered, and the cases tossed into the scrap can.

I'm ending up with about 900+ FC cases, far too many to just pitch on account of the head stamp.

They were sorted through pretty well, for range brass. Out of 1560 cases 60 to 65% were FC, about 20% were Trukish NATO brass, and the rest smaller percentages of R-P and others. Only three LC cases were included. Oh the lot also contained about 16 German manufactured berdan primed brass cases. Cost me a pin.

Grumpy

 

[Old Grumpy]

Just make sure you swage it instead of cutting the primer pocket unless you are extremely careful not to cut too much of the crimp.

Yes Sir, they were.

Grumpy

 

[SSN Vet]

Fed 223 cases do seem to loosen up sooner than others. But imo, it still takes several reloadings.

And yes, swaging is better for maintain primer pocket wall surface area than chamfering its. And the Dillion Super Swager is the cat's meow for getting the job done quickly.

My process, fwiw, is to pay attention to how much resistance I feel when swaging the brass. If find cases that appear loose, I cull and scrap them. When reloading, I pay attention to how much pressure is required to seat the primers, and if I get what appears to be a loose primer pocket, I track that round through the press and then mark the bottom with black sharpie. I box these up with the rest of my reloads, but make note of them when I shoot them, and pay attention.

When I'm done shooting, I cull all the cases with black bases and scrap them.

 

[kimberkid]

Fed 223 cases do seem to loosen up sooner than others. But imo, it still takes several reloadings.

And yes, swaging is better for maintain primer pocket wall surface area than chamfering its. And the Dillion Super Swager is the cat's meow for getting the job done quickly.

I still swage mine by hand ... usually while sitting on the couch watching tv with a before and after box on either side of me and a tray on my lap.

 

[GaryL]

I have had the issue of primers popping out and jamming the trigger mechanism several times. Loose primer pockets can happen with any headstamp. If the brass holds a primer, I have taken to using a little nail polish to seal them in.