AR style peep sight on a muzzleloader

[biggameballs]

So I'm hoping I can get some suggestions on a project idea I have. In the state of MN I'm not allowed to use a scope during muzzle loader season. I found the sights that came on my TC triumph covered up the deer at 100 yards and in low light it made for very hard shooting. I bought this truglo peep with fiberoptic front globe to try and solve the problem. It's not a true peep because the ghost ring mounts where the rear sight would go not all the way at the back of the gun where the scope mounts are. I found the sight provides a great sight picture and is plenty accurate out to 50 yards but shooting at 100 with it was pretty tough.

I started researching sights today and saw that a lot of AR sights have 2 different size peeps that you could flip to. A larger one of close shots and good in low light and then a smaller peep for more precision at longer ranges.

This would be an awesome set up for hunting if it would be able to be set up. I could use the larger peep for most situations and then if I had a longer shot just flip to the smaller peep. I believe it is even possible to have the smaller peep be zeroed at longer range which would be even better as muzzle loaders tend to start to drop a lot past 100 yards.

I'm willing to pay a gunsmith if drilling and tapping etc would need to be done.

So what do you think? If you have any reccomendations for a good gunsmith in MN that would be cool too.

 

[biggameballs]

Any reason something like a Troy BUIS system wouldnt work?

 

[Grunt]

It's an inline so who cares if you want to use Ar sights or not. Not like it's a real muzzle loading rifle so what kind of sights are used is really kind of irrelevant.

 

[biggameballs]

130 views and not one meaningful comment? Did I put this in the wrong forum?

 

[CraigC]

An AR rear sight is going to be way too high to work, at all. Even if you get the front high enough there will be no cheek weld. There are 'some' receiver sights available for 'some' muzzleloaders but you will have to research to find what's available for yours. Might require drilling & tapping.

Sounds to me like you need practice/training in iron sight shooting more than new equipment.

 

[desidog]

The important thing to think about is how the sight line will effect your ergonomics. Maybe if the inline was intended for use with a scope it will have the right comb height, but i'd guess that an AR sight being 1.5" above the rail will make it hard to shoot accurately. You want your sight axis to be as close to your bore axis as possible. You might want to look into a Williams peep sight or something similar; something designed for the particular type of rifle. Some of them have removable, screw-in inserts to change the aperature's diameter.

ETA: Ah, CraigC beat me to it....

 

[biggameballs]

I don't see how a TROY BUIS sight would be any higher then a scope? I thought I could put a weaver base on the back scope mount and then have the front sight drilled and tapped for a small weaver base.

The main benefit I'm wanting is the dual size peeps for short and long range shooting. Screw in inserts wouldn't work I need to be able to flip between sights at a moments notice.

 

[biggameballs]

Maybe something like this with the lower profile?

https://troyind.com/products/micro-set-hk-front-and-round-rear-tritium-blk

 

[Sam Cade]

I thought I could put a weaver base on the back scope mount and then have the front sight drilled and tapped for a small weaver base.

In order for AR type sights to work properly they need to be mounted on the same plane.

As they are intended for use on an in-line (as in layout) weapon with no drop in the stock they will be too high to use when mounted on a longarm with traditional type stock absent a very high cheek riser.


In order to do it "right" you need something like this:

 

[biggameballs]

I do not believe I would need something like that. The sights would be on the same plane just by mounting a weaver base to the front and back of the barrel. TC triumph has a single plane on the barrel. The only doubt I have is how close my eye needs to be to the peep and if it would be a similar distance on the Triumph as it would be on an AR.

 

[Sam Cade]

The sights would be on the same plane just by mounting a weaver base to the front and back of the barrel.
TC triumph has a single plane on the barrel.

Hunh. You are correct. For some reason I was picturing the rifle with a tapered barrel.

The only doubt I have is how close my eye needs to be to the peep and if it would be a similar distance on the Triumph as it would be on an AR.

Nose to charging handle I'm about 3" from the aperture.

 

[itsa pain]

Maybe something like this with the lower profile?

https://troyind.com/products/micro-set-hk-front-and-round-rear-tritium-blk

wow those sites for just $289 how can they make any money??

 

[chicharrones]

So I'm hoping I can get some suggestions on a project idea I have. In the state of MN I'm not allowed to use a scope during muzzle loader season. I found the sights that came on my TC triumph covered up the deer at 100 yards and in low light it made for very hard shooting. I bought this truglo peep with fiberoptic front globe to try and solve the problem. It's not a true peep because the ghost ring mounts where the rear sight would go not all the way at the back of the gun where the scope mounts are. I found the sight provides a great sight picture and is plenty accurate out to 50 yards but shooting at 100 with it was pretty tough.

I started researching sights today and saw that a lot of AR sights have 2 different size peeps that you could flip to. A larger one of close shots and good in low light and then a smaller peep for more precision at longer ranges.

This would be an awesome set up for hunting if it would be able to be set up. I could use the larger peep for most situations and then if I had a longer shot just flip to the smaller peep. I believe it is even possible to have the smaller peep be zeroed at longer range which would be even better as muzzle loaders tend to start to drop a lot past 100 yards.

I completely understand the want for a flip sight rear aperture close to the eye, back on the receiver. I've tried peep sights out on the barrel and for me, they suck. They don't help my eye focus one little bit.

I also have guns with receiver mounted apertures and they work very nice, but the ghost ring type don't help my eye focus at farther ranges either. The front sight post goes blurry when my eyes tire using a ghost ring for a short while. 50 yards or less it's not much of a problem, but farther out the target can get small enough that the blurry front post just isn't precise enough.

Yet, I do get to overcome this quickly and easily with a flip rear aperture on an AR. Choosing aperture sizes without having to unscrew, fumble in your pocket, and screw in another aperture is really nice if not downright necessary outdoors away from a shooting range.

 

[chicharrones]

Maybe something like this with the lower profile?

https://troyind.com/products/micro-set-hk-front-and-round-rear-tritium-blk

That's pretty nice.

 

[Sam Cade]

That's pretty nice.

In the interest of being an informed consumer, I'm going to drop a link to the blog operated by THR member sturmgewehr.
Troy Industries has engaged in some behavior that may color your opinion of their products.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-hiring-follies-of-troy-industries/

Now, this isn't the forum for a discussion about what they did, but it is worth reading the article and taking a moment to internalize it before you reach for your wallet.


Carry on.

 

[Fishbed77]

Troy Industries has engaged in some behavior that may color your opinion of their products.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-hiring-follies-of-troy-industries/

Indeed!

I own a set of Troy Folding Battlesights and they are superb, but thanks to Troy's unethical hiring practices, I will no longer purchase any products from them.

Fortunately, Magpul now makes the MBUS PRO sights, which are every bit as good as the Troys, and cost less too.

 

[dprice3844444]

you c ould drill and tap the rear section as well as the front section and install short rail setups and mix and match ar-15 cheap sights from sarco.if you have a dovetail front sight,lyman 17a setup with removeable inserts.
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/ar15m16.aspx

 

[CraigC]

The flip peep offers you zero advantages on 100yd rifle. If you can't kill a deer with one aperture, the other isn't going to help. You also have to account for the ~4MOA difference between them. This idea isn't going to work well at all. There's no reason for it and better solutions exist. Firstly, I'd suggest you attend an Appleseed to learn how to shoot with peep sights.

 

[critter]

I have a Remington 700ML. At one time, we couldn't use scopes.

I put a bead front sight on along with a Williams (Guideline-I think) back sight, mounted in the already drilled holes in the receiver.

That worked quite well. Your wish for 2 apertures is solved by using the rear sight screw-in insert (which has a small hole) OR take the insert out and just use the hole itself for the large aperture. I used them both ways and it worked for me.

Good luck in finding one you can use.

 

[303tom]

So I'm hoping I can get some suggestions on a project idea I have. In the state of MN I'm not allowed to use a scope during muzzle loader season. I found the sights that came on my TC triumph covered up the deer at 100 yards and in low light it made for very hard shooting. I bought this truglo peep with fiberoptic front globe to try and solve the problem. It's not a true peep because the ghost ring mounts where the rear sight would go not all the way at the back of the gun where the scope mounts are. I found the sight provides a great sight picture and is plenty accurate out to 50 yards but shooting at 100 with it was pretty tough.

I started researching sights today and saw that a lot of AR sights have 2 different size peeps that you could flip to. A larger one of close shots and good in low light and then a smaller peep for more precision at longer ranges.

This would be an awesome set up for hunting if it would be able to be set up. I could use the larger peep for most situations and then if I had a longer shot just flip to the smaller peep. I believe it is even possible to have the smaller peep be zeroed at longer range which would be even better as muzzle loaders tend to start to drop a lot past 100 yards.

I'm willing to pay a gunsmith if drilling and tapping etc would need to be done.

So what do you think? If you have any reccomendations for a good gunsmith in MN that would be cool too.

You mean like this ?................

 

[chicharrones]

In the interest of being an informed consumer, I'm going to drop a link to the blog operated by THR member sturmgewehr.
Troy Industries has engaged in some behavior that may color your opinion of their products.
http://www.thebangswitch.com/the-hiring-follies-of-troy-industries/

Now, this isn't the forum for a discussion about what they did, but it is worth reading the article and taking a moment to internalize it before you reach for your wallet.


Carry on.

Thanks for the heads up. I bought a Troy rear fixed sight only weeks before that blog post was published. I like the sight, but I will rethink spending more money with them.

 

[chicharrones]

The flip peep offers you zero advantages on 100yd rifle. If you can't kill a deer with one aperture, the other isn't going to help. You also have to account for the ~4MOA difference between them. This idea isn't going to work well at all. There's no reason for it and better solutions exist. Firstly, I'd suggest you attend an Appleseed to learn how to shoot with peep sights.

For me, the large aperture doesn't help my old eyes focus on the front sight in outdoor lighting. The small aperture does. A focused front sight at 100 yards is much better than a blurry front sight at 100 yards. I figure I can't be alone in this regard.

The flip sight is nice on the AR and more convenient than my Williams sights on other guns which require screwing in a different aperture. That isn't a big deal in itself, but if I drop a screw in aperture in tall grass because I was swapping from large to small or vice versa because lighting changed on me, well ooops.

 

[CraigC]

Yes but the AR is not a 100yd rifle.

 

[mtrmn]

Burris fastfire---not a scope and requires no focusing on anything but the target. Just a thought....

 

[Kernel]

I like the idea.

Look on eBay. The selection of AR rear sights is almost unlimited. I just bought a used USGI AR rear peep sight for $20 delivered. The guy had dozens of them for sale. Same sight was $100+ at Brownells and that included the dealer discount. It had slight wear. But it was no big deal. You could hammer nails with that sight and it wouldn't hurt it in the slightest.

If your rifles isn't pre drilled for a scope, then drill-n-tap a couple of holes, mount a cheap Weaver one ring base (a $4 item at most), and the AR sight will bolt right on.

Finding a tall front sight will take some looking. What's the diameter of your barrel? It would be cool if an AR front would slip right on. Doubtful, but then you'd be set up for a bayonet too! I know they make AR gas blocks with STANG bases in lots of diameters. An AR detachable front sight would bolt right on. Could be an option. Would likely take some tweeking. Allowing for your ramrod would be a consideration.

As far as having the sight “too high” above that bore, that's not possible. Having it high is an advantage. Taller sights give you a longer point-blank-range. It's physics. That's why all military rifles designed in the last 60 years have Efel Tower like front sights. Taller is better. Silhouette pistols commonly have sights that are 5 or 6 inches above the bore. It's to extend the point-blank-range and reduce the need for range estimation.