AR vs shotgun in home defense discrepancy

[MTMilitiaman]

When people hear an unexpected noise in their home, most will investigate to be sure its not an animal, or a person who is lost, a child, etc. It could be a bg, but you don't know that either unless you see them coming in from outside. If you live entirely alone, this may be different of course. And if you just wanna camp until they leave or come to you, sure.

In any case, you really don't want the bad guy to come to you; you want them to go away.

Now if assasins are after you, that's a different story

Okay if there is a known threat in the house, I post up and wait for them, preferably with a long gun--shotgun or carbine will do. If I am investigating a bump in the night, I grab the Glock 20 and a Fenix handheld white light and investigate. The pistol is more discrete while allowing me enough firepower to fight my way to a long gun if the need arises. I don't feel the need to clear the house with a 12 gauge at every unidentified sound, and I doubt most people do.

I live in small apartments. Posting up in the hallway or bedroom doorway allows me to cover 75% of my living space, including the only entrance. If I had a big enough house to really require searching, or had kids to protect, maybe I would be more inclined to do so. As it is, it is more tactically feasible for me by myself to just post up and wait for a known threat to come to me, and I think probably more defensible in court as well.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

AR pattern rifles (or any rifle) have far too much penetration and lethal range, regardless of how they're stored. That's the issue. Not how much noise is made. The noise you make getting out of bed alone can act as a deterrent.

This is false. In fact, it is not only wrong but is the opposite of the truth. In reality, most 5.56mm loads will exhibit less penetration through common household materials than most handgun rounds. The same combination of small, thinly jacketed projectile at high velocity that makes it fragment in flesh also makes it break up hitting most solid objects. If you care for facts there is literally hours of footage of people shooting stuff on Youtube. Educate yourself before spreading widely discredited fallacies.

 

[pezo]

The shotgun would be chamber empty safety off and mag loaded. I would want the intruder to know I was armed in hopes they flee. I would also announce the cops were called. If a carbine it be similar in the sense the mag would be loaded chamber empty. The rifle would be cocked when grabbed. Same verbal announcement. Giving away position? So I can act ninja and be stealth. No. Most intruders would flee. If you were unlucky enough to have a hit squad be the problem well then it's time to shoot and pray.

 

[hdwhit]

Doc7 wrote:
I don't know who is right but I thought this to be an interesting discrepancy.

What home defense scenario are you preparing for?

A couple of drunken neighborhood kids that broke in to raid that stash of weed you pretend you don't have is a very different scenario from four enforcers from a drug cartel pick the wrong house.

But, it's the threat you are preparing to defend against that is going to govern the weapon chosen, where it is kept and how it is kept. And when you add in that there are state laws that may govern how a weapon may be lawfully stored in house, there's little point to try and formulate rules that will be universally applicable. Evaluate your risks, develop a plan to mitigate them that accords with local laws, implement the plan and then train in its execution.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

But let me point out that you don't control the scenario -- whether it's a "couple of drunken neighborhood kids that broke or four enforcers from a drug cartel" is beyond your control. The only thing you can control is your level of readiness -- and if the actual threat that develops is above your level of readiness, you're toast.

 

[Hummer70]

While I have "what it takes" I have for years practiced the art of making the members of the "home shopping network" think there is a high likelihood of someone being home that has the ability to adjust their as issued body. When in college I was a Counselor in a Pre Release Center and I shall we say took advantage of the clientele backgrounds and asked them what they were most afraid of during break ins and to a man they said, "man with a gun".
1. one car is always parked at the back door and generally two. If we are going to be away for extended time I pull my pickup out and park it at backdoor.
2. I have a 600 yard range behind the house and I keep targets up at 300 yards downrange all the time. Range and backstop is completely visible from the road. The house is 200 yards off of.
3. I leave LED ( 3- 8Watt) lights on in my shop 24/365. My shop has high windows giving the impression of a second floor appartment and only two windows at ground level.
4. Leave a radio playing outside on a talk station 24/365. (9 watts)
5. Leave a LED 4 foot light on over the kitchen sink 24/365 that does a excellent job of lighting the side porch. dual bulbs. 30 watt total, awesome light and 40,000 hour life projection and 5 year warranty.
Something must be working because house 400 yards down the road was broken into, the house across the road broken into, the house up the road broken into.
6. I make sure and cut the grass right before we leave town. The neighbors come down and do a drive through indicating daily moving traffic up the dirt driveway when we are gone. I do the same for them. One feeds the ATTACK CAT that stays outside so there are new tire tracks in and out daily.
7. Now all the neighbors have a vehicle in yard 24/365 and no problem in last five years. That may be the key?
8. But then again I am also flying a 3X5 ft Confederate Flag in front yard.

I call all the above as the "Go away and leave me alone." notice.

Insofar as ARs you should be able to quietly pull a charging handle to the rear and ease it forward and let it bump the top round gently about three times till round is released from mag lips and if rifle pointed downwards should direct the round to the chamber. Then slowly lower the bolt and utilize the bolt assist to GENTLY "tap it home" so to speak. That is what it was there for to achieve final closure and lock into battery any round that fails to achieve a in battery condition.

ARs can let you down at the starting gate. Every test director at Aberdeen that worked any of the M16 programs over the years knew that the vast majority of stoppages occur when a 30 round mag is inserted containing 30 rounds. In other words the chances of your getting a failure to feed,strip,close,lock in round 1, 2 and 3 are much higher thus my mags are loaded with only 26 rounds.

I read an article in a LE mag about 18 months back that said more and more perps are found to be wearing Kevlar vests.

 

[Fiv3r]

I would certainly hate to break into some of the houses you guys have fortified. Well done! That said, if I lived in an area where I felt I needed that level of tactical loadout, I'd move.

I'm not saying we should whistle past graveyards. I'm just saying that a loaded unchambered AR is my go-to. I'm not really worried about charging it. If someone can break into my house, not wake the dog, not wake me (light sleeper who only sleeps from 10:00-3:30), and makes it up the steps, then charged or not I'm pretty much hosed.

I know anything can happen, but I also live my life by statistics. It's why I wear a seatbelt but don't buy lottery tickets. I live in a well lit neighborhood with not much crime beyond hooligans knocking over a trash can or stealing a bike.

Besides, my house is not so much of a hard or soft target as much of a non-target. No one casing it is probably saying to themselves, "Wow these homebodies sure seem to have a lot of mediocre stuff! We should totally break in and take their reasonably priced goods! We could make 10s of dollars!"

I keep my doors/gates/windows locked, dog fed, pistol by the bed, rifle with full mag inserted should statistics fail me.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I live 3/4s of a mile off the county road, back in the woods. Few people know my house is even there. I have a pit bull who sleeps in a crate by the front door, and I keep an Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge next to the bed.

 

[Zerodefect]

Please stop with "racking XXX scare intruders away", and get some darn training.

My Mossberg JM Pro and Larue AR (14" .300blk) sit ready nearby. But a Glock 23 is on my belt. The shotgun is better since I can spray away in the country. The AR is better for perimeter defense, rabid creatures, and random mobs.

Pistol and pants/shorts first. Long guns are a luxury.

In the warm months I have a giant tactical alarm toad that croaks anytime someone approaches my front steps. Works with alarming regularity.

 

[LiveLife]

Pistol and pants/shorts first.

Nah, I never needed pants/shorts to be able to fire my pistols. Do you get better accuracy with different color of pants/shorts?

That's why I like the use of tactical vests already loaded with pistol, magazines, flashlight and cellphone. Takes few seconds to don the vest as I reach for the AR/shotgun. And with AR500 plates, even better as they defeat .223/.308 rounds.

 

[cdb1]

So much of what is posted on this thread is conjecture, since the majority or possibly all posting have not been involved in a home defense scenario. I've always thought if someone was intent on inflicting bodily harm then racking a pump would give that person a direction to shoot. You will never catch me doing that. There will always be a round in the chamber whether it's a shotgun, rifle or pistol.

 

[Zerodefect]

Nah, I never needed pants/shorts to be able to fire my pistols. Do you get better accuracy with different color of pants/shorts?

That's why I like the use of tactical vests already loaded with pistol, magazines, flashlight and cellphone. Takes few seconds to don the vest as I reach for the AR/shotgun. And with AR500 plates, even better as they defeat .223/.308 rounds.

Actually I got the idea from one of the many Fire Departments I service.

I carry with an ultra stiff bigfoot belt that holds my pants open when they're off. I just drop my pants and roll up the legs, pistol, holster and all. All I have to do is jump out of bed, land my feet in my pants and pull them up. Fireman style.

 

[olkowsr]

My choice is my AK47, loaded with saftey on.

Now i know someone will say.. "but that will penetrate your wall, and go into your neighbors house!!!; but know that my closest neighbor is a 1/2 mile away, his house 2/3rds of a mile, so im not so worried.

 

[LiveLife]

Stray bullets can travel for miles. Having said that, I won't hesitate to use .300 BLK when someone is trying to kill me as I want to use ammunition that will likely neutralize the threat fastest, hence shotgun rounds.

7.62x39? Sure, very effective round against two legged threats.

For amusement, here's gunfight scene from John Wick 2 with AR shooting at 1:00 minute and shotgun shooting at 2:15 minute (check out chamber reload at 2:45 minute).

 

[olkowsr]

Stray bullets can travel for miles. Having said that, I won't hesitate to use .300 BLK when someone is trying to kill me as I want to use ammunition that will likely neutralize the threat fastest, hence shotgun rounds.

7.62x39? Sure, very effective round against two legged threats.

For amusement, here's gunfight scene from John Wick 2 with AR shooting at 1:00 minute and shotgun shooting at 2:15 minute (check out chamber reload at 2:45 minute).

Why have I never heard of this movie before? also theirs a first one?
- Although extremely unrealistic, but I do like how the actor didn't blink when he was shooting and I do appreciated a good ghost load in a semi-shotgun myself.

As for your comment, your right... a stray bullet will travel for miles, but someone trying to kill me... (not that i'm exactly a prime target), I wouldn't even hesitate to use my AK.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Yeah you know in those 90s action movies when Steven Seagal is interrogating the bag guy and racks the slide of his shotgun every time he ends a sentence, for dramatic effect? It looks just as retarded when you do it...

Why have I never heard of this movie before? also theirs a first one?
- Although extremely unrealistic, but I do like how the actor didn't blink when he was shooting and I do appreciated a good ghost load in a semi-shotgun myself.

As for your comment, your right... a stray bullet will travel for miles, but someone trying to kill me... (not that i'm exactly a prime target), I wouldn't even hesitate to use my AK.

Yeah Keanu Reeves does 3-Gun and is as I understand it, an advocate of civilian gun ownership.



Love me some John Wick.

 

[LiveLife]

Why have I never heard of this movie before? also theirs a first one?

Maybe you were under a rock? You have heard of Boondock Saints 1 and 2?

Yes, there was a first one just as good with even a better story. Here's a fight scene from first movie.

Although extremely unrealistic

The 50 year old Keanu Reeves trained 8 hours a day for several months for the first movie as he wanted to give realism to his audience. Training was intense and gun fighting coached by Taran Butler and BJJ by Machado brothers. For the second movie, he trained 4 hours a day for several months with even greater emphasis on gun shooting sequences (BTW, in the movie,e Keanu's character is wearing special body armor dress suit made to defeat pistol rounds and that's why he kept hiding his face behind it) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-theres-crossover.825214/page-2#post-10632836

Keanu Reeves does 3-Gun

The video footage you posted was Taran Butler training facility for the movie, not an actual 3-gun competition stage.

 

[olkowsr]

Yeah you know in those 90s action movies when Steven Seagal is interrogating the bag guy and racks the slide of his shotgun every time he ends a sentence, for dramatic effect? It looks just as retarded when you do it...



Yeah Keanu Reeves does 3-Gun and is as I understand it, an advocate of civilian gun ownership.


Love me some John Wick.

Thats awesome.
- Glad to see a hollywood actor who's not against firearms.

 

[olkowsr]

Maybe you were under a rock? You have heard of Boondock Saints 1 and 2?]

Nope, but I'll have to watch them..

 

[someguy2800]

I'm not going to recommend it as a defensive tactic but since the subject was brought up I have two close friends with experience with noise scaring people away,

A very good friend of mine was a single dad lived in a 3rd floor apartment with his infant son. He is watching TV one night when he hears someone trying to jimmy the lock on his patio door going out on his balcony. He goes to his closet and gets an 870 shotgun and walks in front of the patio door. The guy on the balcony says to him through the glass "bull#$@#, it ain't loaded". My friend turned the gun sideways and jacked the round that was in the chamber against the glass and turns the gun to aim at the guy. He jumped over the railing. Never did figure out how the guy got on a 3rd floor balcony.

My best man at my wedding used to keep his unloaded M1 garand next to his bed as a home defense weapon with a loaded enbloc on the nightstand. Him and his wife woke up to the sound of two people in the lower level of the house. He said when he got out of bed the floor creaked and he heard them whispering as if they now realized someone was home. He shoved his enbloc in the garand and let the bolt go home and they ran out the kitchen door.

Those are the only two people I know that have every had an intruder in there home.

 

[hatterasurf]

Here is a great YouTube video and interesting point about cans on home defense weapons.

 

[Jackal]

Ar pistol, red dot, silencer, light and 50gr hp's. My little HD gun is pretty nice.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

in close quarters, people around....only common sense is a shotgun...

 

[Theohazard]

in close quarters, people around....only common sense is a shotgun...

Why? Due to legal barrel length restrictions, a home-defense AR-15 will almost always be shorter than a home-defense shotgun. And with the proper defensive ammo, an AR-15 will penetrate far less through walls.

Both a shotgun and an AR-15 are great home defense weapons, but I prefer an AR-15 primarily because its shorter length makes it more maneuverable and it also allows me to lower the risk of collateral damage to my neighbors.

 

[someguy2800]

I think a 12 gauge pump with bird shot is pretty hard to beat especially if you have neighbors. A shotgun is just made to naturally point without having to really look at the sights.