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AR with no lube or cleaning ability = not so hot shtf

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by lobo9er, Jul 29, 2009.

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  1. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    maybe i'm out in left field but with out lubrication or proper cleaning ability i don't think the AR is that good of a choice of "shtf" heres the scenario go out hunting coyotes or just camping and you get lost in woods, can happen or an extreme situation and you have no cleaning tools or lube, your out in the wild for weeks or maybe months i dont think an AR such a hot idea. gets dirty falls in mud am i wrong to say its out of service or at the very least now a single shot? now i think AR's are awesome and prescion shooters. i owned a S&W MP15 and was not happy with performance really fin-i-key had to be kept clean and lubed so i sold it. i am rough on gear not abusive but rain and snow are not keeping me in. maybe not all ar's are like that. i would love to hear everyones thoughts
     
  2. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    Any firearm with no maintenance will fail eventually. ARs need more maintenance than some other modern arms (chough AK chough) but they will keep working if taken care of.

    Engine oil can be used in place of gun oil, ATF can also be used a an emergency cleaner/lubricant too. Gasoline has been used to clean guns in the past, although I’d only do so in an emergency as it has the annoying tendency to set things on fire.

    You’ll probably go farther using hair pomade as a lube with an AK than with an AR, but either rifle will function if taken care of. BSW
     
  3. greenlion

    greenlion Member

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    Make sure the AR you buy is made for reliability first and accuracy second, and then do what every good Boyscout would do, and carry a field cleaning kit and oil bottle.
     
  4. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    Render some bear fat into grease/oil or just use it as it is. It doesn't go bad.

    It also makes better biscuits than plain old lard.

    Here www.naturallist.com/bearfat.htm

    "Bear oil which is from rendered bear fat sells for $14.00 per ounce or $0.50 per gram plus shipping

    Bear oil has many uses. Besides culinary and soap making, it is used in crafts, medicine, conditioning leather and hair, oil lamps, as a lubricant, as a skin softener, in cosmetics, as aphrodisiac and rejuvenator, to promote hair growth and countless other uses."

    John
     
  5. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    I honestly have to agree here. When you compare an AR to a good quality AK such as a converted Saiga, both are going to be accurate enough to suit your needs, but the ultimate question is which one is going to keep working longest if separated from its cleaning supplies. The AK ultimately wins that one. However, corrosive ammo, if is your main stockpile, can undo this advantage, so it makes more sense to buy commercial ammo if you're stocking up, despite the cost, or buy an AK in a caliber like .223 that's always non-corrosive.
     
  6. lobo9er

    lobo9er Member

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    but the point of the thread here is [I]YOU DONT HAVE OIL AND LUBE[/I] because you either lost or forgot it thats the point. AR's are in need of those things get caught with out it and your up a creek with out a paddle sorta speak you meant to bring a paddle but you dropped it and it went down stream with out you or maybe your pack did with your cleaning kit and oil and lube. Me personally i wouldn't go back packing for extended period time with an only an AR, would you?
     
  7. mp5a3

    mp5a3 Member

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    I can't really see this as being a problem unless you're shooting a lot, like over 1000 rounds. Even a small 1 oz bottle of lube should keep it lubed up enough to keep going.

    If you're firing a few rounds here and there it won't matter. You realize how much 1000 rounds would weigh. I wouldn't want to lug it around..

    As far as mud and dirt goes. If you have a magazine in the magwell and the dust cover closed I can't see much getting in. They seal up pretty good
     
  8. mp5a3

    mp5a3 Member

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    Beyond that, maybe one of those plastic covers like on "Saving Private Ryan" that would keep everything out..
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Yes, I would.

    I have a 1970's era Colt AR carbine that has been run wet, dry, dirty, clean, and with with & without oil.

    Almost 40 years later, I'm still waiting for it to malfunction the first time that couldn't be tracked to a bad reload when I first started loading .223 in 1970.

    Don't blame the AR design for the raft of sub-standard and non-spec builds done over the last 20-30 years by amateurs and companies more interested in the bottom line then putting them together right!

    There are also a lot of crappy after-market & worn out GI AR mags out there too.

    If you prefer AK's just say so and let the rest of us that prefer AR's be.

    rc
     
  10. 61chalk

    61chalk Member

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    Long story, but have a Colt AR, been shooting since 1980. My AR, has always been run dry with NO lube....it works great, we ran the M16's at my base dry, NO lube at all..many will ask why no lube!!! Long story....a simple break down an wipe off an tooth brushing, has kept mine running in the field, then a good cleaning when time allows...
     
  11. FlyinBryan

    FlyinBryan Member

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    well if its not a very good shtf rifle then the most powerful military fighting force on earth is in trouble.
     
  12. 1987rx7guy

    1987rx7guy Member

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    I'm going to post the same thing as before:



    Hunting/camping/hiking


    I'm going to focus on your specific story(s) now:


    The situation as you lay it out is that I get lost in the woods.
    You say this is due to a hunting outing or camping.
    So i'm lost with only my AR and what? 2-4 spare mags.


    Honestly if I was going in so un-prepared that I would actually get lost i'm dead already unless someone happens upon me.

    Here is what would happen or what I would try to do to actually get the situation rectified.

    If i'm going out I would have taken probably no more than 200 rounds(~9 mags).
    My AR is a full 20" model without a super tacticool collapsible stock. Guess what?
    This stock has a compartment to carry a cleaning kit in it along with an oiling bottle(~3-5oz) So first of all so long as I haven't completely been an idiot while at home I have the bottle atleast 50% full. That would last me atleast three to five times the amount of rounds that I am carrying(total not on my person). So if I get lost with my AR I get lost with my cleaning kit.

    Before I go further into this if I was actually lost I would wait for sunset or sunrise to find my natural compass and start walking in the direction towards the nearest road. The only way that I couldn't do this is if I was in rain forest.

    If I was carrying some type of M4 AR I would have some issues with the oiling/cleaning stuff not being in there but if I had more than 2 mags on my person I am going to be carrying some form of vest/LBE or pack. Guess what would be in there?


    I have personally put over 400 rounds through my AR without cleaning it. Just so you know this isn't premium ammo. I'm talking about lacquered steel case Monarch .223 rem stuff. This stuff IS dirty but the rifle didn't even hiccup.

    SHTF


    Now if you are talking about SHTF all bets are off. But i'd bet that if someone is actually prepared for SHTF scenarios and they are able to get to their AR before needing to bug-out they will have a bug-out pack near the gun. It would likely stand to argue that this would include at least basic maintenance and REPAIR components.

    If you are in some future post SHTF place then it would likely have settled down enough to barter or find some cleaning supplies weeks/months down the road.


    MUD

    If your rifle falls into the mud you probably have more problems than your gun being dirty. You are likely running away from BGs or coyotes or you yourself are probably hurt in the mud with it.

    Although if you have an AR in the mud it might start to jam up. I would trust mine to fire at-least one round after falling in the mud.
     
  13. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Then that's simply poor planning. ANY firearm can fail. Not bringing any maintenance kit or spares is not the fault of the firearm.
    Stuck cases, broken extractors, squib loads, any of these can bring a firearm to it's knees. Even AKs. Even bolt actions.

    If you want 100% reliability the only solution is to bring 2 guns.

    "One is none and two is one".
     
  14. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    The Army I was in trained me to sacrifice my body before my weapon.

    Running in the mud and tripping over your poncho and what do you do?

    You take a face plant in the mud while keeping control of the rifle and letting only the butt-plate hit the ground.

    A man that got a Future Weapons TV show mud bath on his M-1, M-14, M-16, or any other weapon would be dead in combat.

    rc
     
  15. stchman

    stchman Member

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    That is what the Mini-14 is for.

    The Mini-14 is an ultra-reliable (now pretty darn accurate with the new 580 models) rifle. It uses a gas system very similar to an M1 Garand. You can get it in stainless steel with a composite stock for weather resistance.

    They are a pretty simple rifle with low maintenance in mind.
     
  16. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Member

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    If the premise of the thread is to be believed; why would our military ever adopt such a delicate firearm and then issue it to be operated outdoors?:eek:
     
  17. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    If I'm lost in the woods for weeks or months I'm dead without water. If I have a source of water I can wash the mud off of my gun. A clean and dry (no oil) AR would be fine for woods survival, which would be shooting small game, probably one round at a time.

    If I'm stuck in the woods for weeks or months at a time the oil for whatever type of firearm I have is about number 257 on list of things I'm concerned about.
     
  18. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Zactly!

    "Somebody" has been reading too much internet BS about the AR-15/M-16.

    rc
     
  19. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    i have collapsible stocks on almost all my ARs and nearly every AR I have has a bottle of machine gunners lube in it. either in the magpul MIAD grip or in the UBR stock. plus, i keep a tackle box of spare parts and lube in my vehicle.

    I don't do this for any scary SHTF scenarios... just cause i go to the range a lot and often forget stuff, so i keep the essentials with me.

    on a side note, i'm in the long process of switching lubes from MG to slip 2k ewl and i haven't yet figured out how to do this with the slip 2k. the MG lube comes in such convenient little bottles.


    worst case scenario, finding a natural lubricant is not exactly difficult.
     
  20. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    Unrealistic scenario... if you are wandering through the woods with enough ammunition to dry up the lube on an AR (and I've fired 750 rounds in a day) but you don't have any lube, then you've probably overlooked something much more severe than the firearm - like training, water, food, shelter, remembering to pull down your pants before you pee, etc.
     
  21. FlyinBryan

    FlyinBryan Member

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    just take the gi cleaning kit dude.

    that way the next time your lost in the woods you can clean it.

    you probably wont have to clean it after the first set of bad guys chase you, maybe even the second set (if you dont fall down in the mud it might be good for 3 seperate bad guy chases, after which i would clean it even if i hadnt fallen down in the mud)

    another way to look at this: if you fall into mud only to realize its not mud at all,,,,, but rather quicksand, an ak will drag you down even faster than an ar will. luckily for us all, there is almost always a vine hanging down from a tree within arms reach of most quicksand.
     
  22. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    The AR is pretty much worthless dry and/or dirty.

    Get a gun that isn't. There are plenty.

    None of them are as cool as an AR, nor do they tend to be match-grade.
     
  23. ECVMatt

    ECVMatt Member

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    Long before the AR became the ultimate gadget holder, we used to go out to the desert and shoot. Just for Fun. Imagine that. We didn't go to gunfighting schools, wear web gear, or think the end of the world was right around the corner.

    We would shoot hundreds of rounds through our AR's and never clean them. It wasn't that we were trying some torture test or wanted to abuse them, we were just kids having fun. We never had an AR shutdown on us. Did we have some jams, of course. It could have been magazines, ammo, or a dirty rifle. We always managed to get it back in to action in short order.

    Now I visit some pretty remote places, but I can't think of too many that would take me months to get out of. Alaska maybe. Even my beloved Death Valley is now traversed with roads and people and converted to a NP. However, I would be willing to bet that an AR could follow you out of most places and still work.

    If this is some sort of subliminal AK vs. AR thing, then I think that has already be done to death and then some.

    I will agree with others here, if I am heading out with my AR then I usually have some AR stuff with me. I never go hunting without the proper tools to fix the basic things on my chosen rifle of the day.

    Good luck and bring a cleaning kit, it will save you many nights of lost sleep.

    Cordially,

    Matt
     
  24. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Don't have an AK. Don't much care for the AK.

    I just know what my AR does when it's dry and dirty, and I wouldn't want it to do that under dire circumstances.

    Of course, if the SHTF, I don't think I'll be wasting the space and weight carrying around a .223, since I won't have any particular need to shoot prairie dogs.

    SHTF means "I want to survive", not "COOL! Comic book fantasies come to life!"
     
  25. gondorian

    gondorian Member

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    Well you could just use an A2 style stock and have a cleaning kit built in.
     
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