Tim the student
Member
And thats why I had no issues with the M4 in Iraq, other than FMJ ammo.
AR with no lube or cleaning ability = not so hot shtf
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And thats why I had no issues with the M4 in Iraq, other than FMJ ammo.
Grantman
Member
If a US GI could bend a chunky gas piston in a U shape, after they've finished with an M4 gas tube it must look like a pretzel.
Not at all. A weapons platform is based on its merits and it is these merits that will inevitably see the American Army ditch DI and return to their original gas piston. No doubt if the merits of DI outweighed the merits of GP the American Army would adopt DI whenever it does change assault rifles, and what’s more DI would be prevalent in past and contemporary small arms design. In fact, if it really was better than GP, DI would hands down be dominating small arms design today. Instead DI will be fading off into the past. This is very telling, very definitive.
I have no first hand experience with DI firearms which hasn't made anything I've said any less accurate. I have no doubt that a quality DI system would do the job superbly for all I'd ever be using it for. If I picked up a good AR15 I'd fully expect excellent service out of it, accuracy, weight, calibre, ergonomics all exemplary. In saying that, it does not have the 1st place trophy in reliability even if it ‘will still be ok for your needs’. Assault rifles have been ticking off accuracy, weight, calibre & ergonomics requirements for decades while holding the GP trophy.
Not at all. A weapons platform is based on its merits and it is these merits that will inevitably see the American Army ditch DI and return to their original gas piston. No doubt if the merits of DI outweighed the merits of GP the American Army would adopt DI whenever it does change assault rifles, and what’s more DI would be prevalent in past and contemporary small arms design. In fact, if it really was better than GP, DI would hands down be dominating small arms design today. Instead DI will be fading off into the past. This is very telling, very definitive.
I have no first hand experience with DI firearms which hasn't made anything I've said any less accurate. I have no doubt that a quality DI system would do the job superbly for all I'd ever be using it for. If I picked up a good AR15 I'd fully expect excellent service out of it, accuracy, weight, calibre, ergonomics all exemplary. In saying that, it does not have the 1st place trophy in reliability even if it ‘will still be ok for your needs’. Assault rifles have been ticking off accuracy, weight, calibre & ergonomics requirements for decades while holding the GP trophy.
Grantman
Member
Maverick223 said:
Absolutely.
Joe Demko
Member
Chunky? The pistons I've seen, especially for retrofits, are more willowy than chunky. FTR, not much ever happens to gas tubes because little ever realy needs to be done to them. I've seen lots of problems caused by people trying to clean them and very few caused by people not cleaning them.
The Deer Hunter
Member
I didn't take the time to read all 6 pages, but I think if you're in a situation where you are likely to get lost and need a good, reliable rifle that doesn't need constant maintenance, maybe an autoloader like an AR-15 isn't a good choice. I'm not trying to downplay it, but the fact of the matter is that the AR15 is nowhere near as reliable as something like a bolt action rifle, or a pump action shotgun.
My first bit of advice would be to take along a field cleaning kit and a bottle of oil, however the premise of the situation entails that you have somehow lost or forgotten your equipment.
Of course, no one can plan for what they don't know is going to happen. Some of the best advice I have ever heard is: "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best". In other words, always be prepared for the worst possible scenario.
Following those words of wisdom, part of my preparation for the worst possible scenario in which I have nothing but the clothes on my back and my gun in my hands, I would probably think to bring a firearm that I know is going to reliable regardless of how dirty it is, or how dry it may be. However, I do like to get my gun wet every once in a while...
My first bit of advice would be to take along a field cleaning kit and a bottle of oil, however the premise of the situation entails that you have somehow lost or forgotten your equipment.
Of course, no one can plan for what they don't know is going to happen. Some of the best advice I have ever heard is: "Prepare for the worst, hope for the best". In other words, always be prepared for the worst possible scenario.
Following those words of wisdom, part of my preparation for the worst possible scenario in which I have nothing but the clothes on my back and my gun in my hands, I would probably think to bring a firearm that I know is going to reliable regardless of how dirty it is, or how dry it may be. However, I do like to get my gun wet every once in a while...
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Grantman said:
You remove a gas tube in the process of cleaning an M4?
Grantman
Member
The piston themselves are hardly willowy, the op rod would be the part you're talking about which I can't see breaking anymore than anything else on the rifle that isn't the receiver or barrel. While I'm sure soldiers destroyed Garand and m14 op rods it hardly justifies avoiding them over the DI gas tube even if the tube shouldn't ever need removing.
Grantman
Member
of course the gas tube doesn't need to be removed to damage it. Take the hand guards or rail system off and you've got a tube sitting under there exposed to whatever happens. It's sure not going to be less of a liability than dealing with an decent, solid throughout, op rod in roughly in the same place
rbernie
Contributing Member
Actually, your arguments have zero credibility. You are debating book learnin' with people that actually have real life experiences. I cannot fathom how you can possibly equate the two.
Grantman
Member
how about you tell me where I'm wrong instead of implying information is useless unless it has been experienced first hand. From that argument I may as well try hard drugs etc etc because the instruction from others, parents included, the written studies and so on aren't worth anything whatsoever.
How many times must I say I consider the THR forum a useful tool when people give their first hand firearms experiences. Opinions don't really contribute much to a fact based argument. I just don't understand how you even have an argument never shouldering a DI AR15.
ramis
Member
Buy a good quality AR, keep the BCG lubed, and you'll be good to go.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35136&highlight=cleaning
(bottom of the first page.)
Pat Rogers has over 15,000 rounds through that rifle with just lubing.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=35136&highlight=cleaning
(bottom of the first page.)
Pat Rogers has over 15,000 rounds through that rifle with just lubing.
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