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AR10/.308 or Ruger Scout For Long Term Hurricane Katrina-like Lawlessness?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Mr.Blue, Oct 31, 2011.

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  1. Mr.Blue

    Mr.Blue Member

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    I'm not a mall ninja or a zombie goofball, but I do believe in the possibility of having to protect myself and family from massive civil unrest. Being a financial (capital markets) professional, I know how close we have come to a massive financial system collapse.

    Now that you know where I'm coming from, I'd like some opinions on the best platform. Please no debates on the likelihood of such events.

    I already have an M-4, which my wife can handle. I'd like a .308 for me. I'm a decent rifleman and no stranger to bolt-actions.

    Here are my pros and cons for both rifles:

    AR in .308 (Armalite or LaRue)

    Pro

    -20 round capacity
    -speed of semi-auto

    Cons

    -cost
    -less reliable (more complicated design) than bolt-action in extreme circumstances. If it breaks and there is no gunsmith around, I'm screwed. I'm not handy at all!
    -heavier.

    Ruger Gunsite Scout

    Pros

    -hearty bolt-action design is very durable.
    -10 round magazine differentiates it from other bolt-actions.
    -lightweight
    -iron sights on a bolt action.

    Cons-

    -slower action and less capacity, but slower action probably means more accurate follow up shots.
    -lack of supply of magazines, but this will change soon.

    What say you?
     
  2. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    Neither...For an anticipated event like that a couple of stockpiled SKS's and a crate or two of ammo, preferable on stripper clips would suit me just fine. The whole combo can likely be had for less than either of your chosen rifles alone.
     
  3. james_bond

    james_bond Member

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    Another point for a "civil-unrest-type-thing" the AR-10 can break in to two parts (upper and lower) and can be put in a "nothing-to-see-here" bag.
     
  4. Unistat

    Unistat Member

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    You should also look at DSA FAL-style rifles. I'd say they are in between the Scout and AR-10s, price wise.

    I personally have an AR-10, but I bought that before the Scout came out (I made my own scout from a Mosin-Nagant.) I would have probably bought the Ruger Scout first if it was available at the time.
     
  5. hipoint

    hipoint Member

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    I say go with the .308 in whatever platform you choose. More firepower is always best! I've never owned a saiga, but if they are anywhere near as tough as the ak47 they are based on, then you can't go wrong there... however, as said, i've never owned a saiga, so someone should chime in here with their take on them.

    I would recommend an ak47, but I just don't like the tiny little rounds... same as the .223... I like the way you think, if you're going to get a gun for the hordes, get one that's going to go through a car and still be lethal. Going on that route, why not get an older Garand rifle? 30-06 is even better, and probably about the largest semi-auto rifle you would want to lug around for any length of time.

    Best remedy? get both types chambered in the same round! Maybe find a re-barreled mauser in .308 for the ultra-reliable no breaking gun, and then your ar-10 for shock and awe. In all reality, you're not going to be fending off hordes of thuggish fiends coming to take your life, so a little shock and awe mixed with a good old standby mauser would be ideal for taking care of the smaller groups who may show up looking for trouble.
     
  6. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    Tiny little rounds?
     
  7. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    I would have thought a shotgun to be a better defense weapon, but if you need and excuse .... ;) I'd say go with whatever one you'd prefer to take to the range or clean during the game.
     
  8. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    The AR-10, like an AR-15, is actually easier to maintain on your own than a turn bolt. With a pair of pliers and a few finishing nails (ends cut off to serve as punches) you can nearly rebuild it yourself. A spare lower parts kit will run you about $65, spare complete bolt a little under $100, and a firing pin about $8. Use the LPK as ready made spare parts kit just in case. If anything is going to break it'll be the bolt or firing pin, and those are quick swaps.

    The bigger question is, are you planning to bug in or bug out?
     
  9. P.B.Walsh

    P.B.Walsh Member

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    I will always say a non-magazine firearm would be my choice. This is because there is no way of loosing a magazine!

    That being said, of the two rifles you mentioned, I would prefer the Ruger. I find it highly unlikely that you will need the superior fire power of a mag-fed semi-auto, well unless you are doing something TERRIBLY wrong!
     
  10. Sergeant Sabre

    Sergeant Sabre Member

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    If your wife has an M4-type rifle, it seems like another 5.56mm AR would be in order. Why have two different types of ammo, magazines, spare parts, etc?
     
  11. LiquidTension

    LiquidTension Member

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    ^ This. Losing a magazine shouldn't be an issue - you do have multiples for each gun, right? Commonality of ammo and mags is a huge plus when it comes down to it.
     
  12. Mr.Blue

    Mr.Blue Member

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    I have other AR-15's as well. I'm sorry I didn't explain that off the bat. I just want some more muscle, especially if I need to hunt.

    I will also use the iron sights on either gun. I may add a reflex sight, but would prefer not to add a scope.
     
  13. LiquidTension

    LiquidTension Member

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    In that case might I recommend something you haven't suggested? I've shot a bunch of 7.62x51 semis and the one that I would pick up first is the REPR.
     
  14. briansmithwins

    briansmithwins Member

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    I would not choose 7.62 NATO as a cartridge. It's heavy, requires a heavier rifle, and isn't significantly more effective on humans than 5.56 NATO or 7.62x39.

    The AR10 style is pretty close to the worst choice in 7.62 NATO rifles. You've got a bunch of wanna be rifles that have no parts compatibility and varying degrees of development. Nothing is standardized when it comes to AR10 style rifles.

    BSW
     
  15. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    If you are using iron sights, you probably aren't taking 300 yard shots. Why not 7.62x39? Same diameter at the 308, but much lighter to carry. A couple of SKSs could be had for cheap, or get a 7.62x39 upper for one of your AR-15s and have parts commonality as well as a bigger round for hunting. You will need to make sure you find reliable mags if you go the AR route.
     
  16. Robert101

    Robert101 Member

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    Go with the AR10 rifle. Better on barriers. It's for protection in and about your area - not like you're on patrol with 250 rounds in your gear.
     
  17. Don357

    Don357 Member

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    If you are worrying about shooting through car doors, there has been some "green tip" AP, ammo available through several distributors such as CTD and Sportsmans Guide for the .223/5.56x45, however, with todays cars, a 7.62x39 with FMJ ammo does quite well. Go with an AK. In a "we have been invaded!" situation, ammo will be plentiful as most of our "enemies" use it as their main battle rifle caliber, and at present it is readily available and very inexpensive even at Wally-World. Remember too, that the 7.62x39 is ballistically equal to the .30-30 Winchester so don't underestimate it.
     
  18. Z-Michigan

    Z-Michigan Member

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    I would get another quality AR-15 personally. There are few situations in which a bigger, heavier rifle with less ammo is going to be more useful because of bad guys beyond barriers or what not. It's extremely unlikely you would have any legitimate reason to take a shot at something outside the effective range of an AR-15.

    M855 is HORRIBLE against cars. There was a case in Iraq not long ago where two M249 gunners fired full 200-round belts against an ordinary car that they thought was a suicide bomber. It rolled to a stop in front of them and its driver got out unharmed. So much for the "AP green tip" (it is not armor-piercing by any definition outside of internet forums).

    There are several other rounds, particularly Mk318 SOST, that do much better against cars.
     
  19. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Focus on the civil unrest and look at the lessons learned: Regardless of legality, there may be groups consficating firearms. Best to be low profile. Secondly, what dried up fastest during the Obamascare? Miiltary cartridges in 9mm, 5.56, and .308. In the meantime, .30-30, .30-06, and 12ga remained plentiful.

    Then there's the strategic consideration: Do you have to vacate your home? If it's literally lying flattened around you, expect looting, and that emergency shelter likely won't allow you in the neighborhood with firearms.

    Is your home hardened enough with underground facilities to continue to function? Can you secure enough ammo there and keep it out of the hands of others? If you are forced out, what ONE gun can you take that is lo profile and concealable?

    All too many focus on the uber tactical when reality shows that what DID happen in Katrina - or Joplin - is entirely different than the internet zombie fantasy all too often indulged in.

    If you can stay, you need a variety, and the Seven Guns To Own a good guideline. If your moving, ike it or not, a concealable hi cap pistol might be about all that's tolerated in an urban recovery situation - if it's not seen.

    And we haven't even touched on water, food, expedient shelter, appropriate clothing, first aid, warmth in the winter, etc. Suffice it to say, if you can't go 30 days without electricity, there's a serious defect in how to remain in the home. And, if you can't remain and have to roam at large, it forces you to take even less of what you need the most.

    Focusing on guns is exactly the wrong perspective. It conceals the real issues, and they don't get addressed - such as, what can be done to prevent it to begin with. You can't drink gunpowder or eat bullets, but you can be manipulated by hunger, thirst, and the elements.
     
  20. Lovesbeer99

    Lovesbeer99 Member

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    I'm no expert but if you want a .308 get the Ruger with a forward mounted scope so you can shoot quickly with both eyes open. If you need to you can pop it off and use the iron sights. Ruger makes other really short bolt guns in .308 that might fit the bill but don't have box magazines which would be my preference.

    But..

    Unles you live in a place with lots of space, I'd start with a 12 gauge pump (maybe an auto) as a second gun.

    You might also consider another M4 so that you can your wife can share accessories, ammo and magazines.

    Finally - if you are really preping get a good side arm also, like a glock or XD.

    And don't forget to practice.
     
  21. CFletch08

    CFletch08 Member

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    Between the two listed I would think the Ruger is the superior arm, but I would also rather have a mauser-style bolt action in 30-06 or 308. My FN 1950 in 30-06 is crazy accurate and currently sports a peep sight that allows as good accuracy as can be had without going the scoped route. Also, the mausers are much less expensive and can feed from stripper clips if you need fast reloading.
     
  22. TonyAngel

    TonyAngel Member

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    Tirod makes a good point. Everyone wants to concentrate on arming themselves for when things go south, but what you may think should be important, isn't.

    Before you go sinking thousands into more guns and ammo, are you stocked up on supplies? MREs, water, meds?

    After Katrina, there were a few commodities that got to be hard to find. I, along with most, were caught off guard and weren't quite prepared. Water, food and gas were what everything was about. How well armed I was, was hardly a concern. Dealing with what had to be dealt with certainly didn't leave much room in my truck, or hands for that matter, for toting anything like an AR10.
     
  23. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Member

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    Between your two choices, I would go with the Ruger Scout Rifle.

    Like other people have already said, lugging an AR-10 around in those types of conditions would be more so on the difficult side. If I was making the choice right now using your criteria, I would go for another M4 like AR-15 in either 5.56 so I could share ammo, or something along the lines of .300 BLK or .30 Remington. Stock up a lot of ammo, and you would be fine. The AR-10 can be a finicky platform, and you definitely have to pay for performance there. If you have the $$$, great. Go for it. It can be an excellent platform.

    If you go for the Ruger Scout, get a couple extra magazines and mount a low magnification scope or red dot sight scout rifle style and enjoy a light, somewhat PC rifle that can be reloaded fairly quickly with no scope in the way of the bolt handle. It can be an excellent rifle in trained hands.
     
  24. BikerRN

    BikerRN member

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    As a "survival" EOTWAWKI firearm I'd select the 12 Guage pump action.

    With that I can get whatever else I need, firearms, ammo, food, shelter, medicine, water, etc, etc. Of your two options I'd go with a bolt action any day of the week.

    BikerRN
     
  25. Cryogaijin

    Cryogaijin Member

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    Given the same choice, I went with a Saiga .308. Cheaper, lots of parts, decent accuracy, much more powerful than 7.62x39
     
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