AR15/870 CQB Shotgun
- Thread starter BrobeeBiter
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BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello All!
Dave: I bet the bulk of the difference is in the stocks...The AR telescoping stock weighs nothing while the standard shotgun stock has a bit of mass to it. The gun was also unloaded (but with 6 on the sidesaddle)...so deployed weight is going to have the incremental weight of the additional 5 rounds
Daedalus: I'll do my best to keep you guys in the loop! Feedback is especially important to me as it is so easy to get caught up in my own train of though and forget about the world of experience that flourishes outside outside of what and how I think. All who participate in these discussions have helped enormously and I am grateful.
dport: I haven't had any issues with my M3 either...however I have not been kicking down doors nor crawling through the mud with it either (I will do some crawling through the mud this fall come deer/bear season though!)
Aww shucks...my self restraint is eroding and the beast is scratching at the door of her cage:
Take care all...
BrobeeBiter
Dave: I bet the bulk of the difference is in the stocks...The AR telescoping stock weighs nothing while the standard shotgun stock has a bit of mass to it. The gun was also unloaded (but with 6 on the sidesaddle)...so deployed weight is going to have the incremental weight of the additional 5 rounds
Daedalus: I'll do my best to keep you guys in the loop! Feedback is especially important to me as it is so easy to get caught up in my own train of though and forget about the world of experience that flourishes outside outside of what and how I think. All who participate in these discussions have helped enormously and I am grateful.
dport: I haven't had any issues with my M3 either...however I have not been kicking down doors nor crawling through the mud with it either (I will do some crawling through the mud this fall come deer/bear season though!)
Aww shucks...my self restraint is eroding and the beast is scratching at the door of her cage:
Take care all...
BrobeeBiter
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Yup, between the 5 in the S/S and the 5 in the magazine.
Not much on the Cool Factor, but sure would like to play with this one...
Not much on the Cool Factor, but sure would like to play with this one...
Nightcrawler
Member
I generally don't like the CAR stocks....but you can put a BAYONET ON IT?? SWEET....
I've been lusting after your design ever since I first saw it. WAY cooler than that thingamagig from FN.
Thanks for taking lefties into consideration! (I'm left handed too). I don't like the 870s safety, being lefty, but it works. (I don't have an 870, I have a Chinese clone of one...your attachment wouldn't work on my gun, I don't think, but this setup would be worth buying a whole new gun for).
I'd be durn tempted to go through all of the hassle of getting a short barreled shotgun just so I could have this....
I've been lusting after your design ever since I first saw it. WAY cooler than that thingamagig from FN.
Thanks for taking lefties into consideration! (I'm left handed too). I don't like the 870s safety, being lefty, but it works. (I don't have an 870, I have a Chinese clone of one...your attachment wouldn't work on my gun, I don't think, but this setup would be worth buying a whole new gun for).
I'd be durn tempted to go through all of the hassle of getting a short barreled shotgun just so I could have this....
BrobeeBiter
Member
Nightcrawler: I'm familiar with several iterations of the Chinese knock-offs (Norinco) and the adapter will work with all of them. The rail system might be a little more problematic, but I wouldn't write it off immediately.
For those reading, some of the chinese made guns have extended the built in magazine tube (like an extension) and as a result have the barrel mounting lug further down the barrel. The front rail adapter/barrel clamp I use for mounting the fore part of the rail might still fit if it did not interfere with the pumping mechanism/transfer bars.
The bayonet mount in it's current execution only works with a 14 inch barreled gun. *sigh*...It is so excessive, but at the same time oozing with a primal sort of barbaric attraction I can't quite describe; I oscillate wildly between hating it and loving it.
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
For those reading, some of the chinese made guns have extended the built in magazine tube (like an extension) and as a result have the barrel mounting lug further down the barrel. The front rail adapter/barrel clamp I use for mounting the fore part of the rail might still fit if it did not interfere with the pumping mechanism/transfer bars.
The bayonet mount in it's current execution only works with a 14 inch barreled gun. *sigh*...It is so excessive, but at the same time oozing with a primal sort of barbaric attraction I can't quite describe; I oscillate wildly between hating it and loving it.
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
2nd Amendment
member
Man I like that. I like that a LOT!
nvrquit
Member
OOOooo, D*&n....
BrobeeBiter,
You are making the other items on my wants list(or maybe it really is a "needs" lists?!?) get very nervous.....
The Inox Beretta Type M and Sig220ST have stopped figthing for the top spot and are forming a pact, in an effort to keep the AR15/870 CQB from being in first position.....
Ah, decisions, decisions.....
Keep us updated and I'm looking forward to that email for order info when the units are ready!
BrobeeBiter,
You are making the other items on my wants list(or maybe it really is a "needs" lists?!?) get very nervous.....
The Inox Beretta Type M and Sig220ST have stopped figthing for the top spot and are forming a pact, in an effort to keep the AR15/870 CQB from being in first position.....
Ah, decisions, decisions.....
Keep us updated and I'm looking forward to that email for order info when the units are ready!
I just read where you got the information about the M3. I did a search on that forum. I could find no negative posts about the light itself. There does seem to be a problem with using it on certain pistols, something about the recoil spring.
I think as long as you can mount a M1913 rail system light to the gun that you'll be fine.
I think as long as you can mount a M1913 rail system light to the gun that you'll be fine.
jthuang
Member
Wow, this may actually convince me to buy a (used) Rem 870 in anticipation of acquiring this kit. 
Justin
Justin
Well the AW ban answered my first question why an 870 instead of an 11-87.
I'd shop this design around to some hollywood armorers. Looks wicked cool, needs some screen time. the green finish is tough-looking and nonreflective.
As for actual utility, I still think raising the aiming point 3 inches over the bore is a bad thing.
Still, I think you are onto something.
I'd shop this design around to some hollywood armorers. Looks wicked cool, needs some screen time. the green finish is tough-looking and nonreflective.
As for actual utility, I still think raising the aiming point 3 inches over the bore is a bad thing.
Still, I think you are onto something.
Nightcrawler
Member
Now am I to understand that you can ONLY mount CAR stocks on this shotgun? I think I'd prefer an A1 stock, myself.
ctdonath
Member
Nifty gizmo!
I built something along the same lines (though not as slick) precisely to create the hands-down most legal gun in NY. <tangent> Perversely, a rifled shotgun (as originally built at factory) is not, in NY legal jargon, a firearm or shotgun or rifle or anything defined. Lacking legal definition, it is not regulated. Painfully extensive details here. My result was a Mossberg with folding stock, pistol grip, red-dot sight, and sidesaddle.
Yours is, of course, slicker. Point is: build it from a from-factory rifled shotgun and it may be more useful in NY (city included).
I built something along the same lines (though not as slick) precisely to create the hands-down most legal gun in NY. <tangent> Perversely, a rifled shotgun (as originally built at factory) is not, in NY legal jargon, a firearm or shotgun or rifle or anything defined. Lacking legal definition, it is not regulated. Painfully extensive details here. My result was a Mossberg with folding stock, pistol grip, red-dot sight, and sidesaddle.
Yours is, of course, slicker. Point is: build it from a from-factory rifled shotgun and it may be more useful in NY (city included).
BrobeeBiter
Member
Nightcrawler: Yes you are correct...the stock has been designed for a telescoping tube type stock. A regular A1 stock will fit, however not very well(the bottom nub sticks out).
ctdonath: My plan for the get go is to not build complete guns for sale...I am primarily interested in manufacturing the adapter and making it available to as many people as I can. This is where my focus will be for the first couple of years. Pending commercial success, I might look at packaging complete guns, but my as a startup type company I think this would be a mistake to tackle too early. I was interested to read the NY rules....part of my motivation for building the 870 adapter was that pump action shotguns are some of the least regulated type firearms here in Canada as well.
Dr. Rob: I would love to get one of my test guns some screen time. It is something that I have not pursued at all, however something I am very interested in. That being a wold I know so little about, do you have any suggestions on where to start?
Others: I apologize for making you question your respective religions ( ), I too have succumbed to the seductive ways of and a tempestuous relationship with my 12 gauge siren. She certainly has a way of demanding attention.
Thanks so much for your collective encouragement....
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
ctdonath: My plan for the get go is to not build complete guns for sale...I am primarily interested in manufacturing the adapter and making it available to as many people as I can. This is where my focus will be for the first couple of years. Pending commercial success, I might look at packaging complete guns, but my as a startup type company I think this would be a mistake to tackle too early. I was interested to read the NY rules....part of my motivation for building the 870 adapter was that pump action shotguns are some of the least regulated type firearms here in Canada as well.
Dr. Rob: I would love to get one of my test guns some screen time. It is something that I have not pursued at all, however something I am very interested in. That being a wold I know so little about, do you have any suggestions on where to start?
Others: I apologize for making you question your respective religions (
), I too have succumbed to the seductive ways of and a tempestuous relationship with my 12 gauge siren. She certainly has a way of demanding attention.Thanks so much for your collective encouragement....
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello All!
Some progress to report: I received an e-mail/progress report from the foundrey today. They have cast some of the quality control units and need to modify the master die slightly to bring some of the dimensions into spec as well as add another plug (the hole for the mounting bolt).
While this might delay commercial delivery a bit, I don't find it disappointing as the quality of the production pieces is going to be extremely high and this is in my opinion more important than hurrying to market.
Take care!
BrobeeBiter
Some progress to report: I received an e-mail/progress report from the foundrey today. They have cast some of the quality control units and need to modify the master die slightly to bring some of the dimensions into spec as well as add another plug (the hole for the mounting bolt).
While this might delay commercial delivery a bit, I don't find it disappointing as the quality of the production pieces is going to be extremely high and this is in my opinion more important than hurrying to market.
Take care!
BrobeeBiter
Preacherman
Member
BBBiter, I strongly agree. Get it right, and you'll have many satisfied customers (including me! ), and lots of enthusiastic referrals and repeat business. Get it wrong, or sloppily finished, and you'll get nowhere. I'm looking forward to trying one out!
), and lots of enthusiastic referrals and repeat business. Get it wrong, or sloppily finished, and you'll get nowhere. I'm looking forward to trying one out!2nd Amendment
member
BBB, rather than go back thru this entire thread I'll just ask if you are taking email addys/orders at this point? Not cash or Pymts, just contact addys for when your first units become available. If so then I'll send ya a mail. I want on the list.
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello All!
2nd Amendment: I am maintaining a *reserved list* of people who are interested in purchasing an adapter. If you would like to get on the list, send me an e-mail to [email protected] and I will make that happen. The stage I'm at in the production process is working out the last little quality control kinks in the casting process. Once I approve the master mold/process, I will begin taking orders. People on the reserved list will have three weeks to take advantage of their "first dibs" status.
TechBrute: Pricing is slowly firming up: the stock adapter (just the adapter with no pistol grip or stock) is going to be $99.00 US. I still have a little work to do to firm up pricing for the rails, however I have some targets/preliminary numbers. The rear rail adapter will be approximately $25.00 US, and a receiver length rail will be approximately $45.00 US.
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
2nd Amendment: I am maintaining a *reserved list* of people who are interested in purchasing an adapter. If you would like to get on the list, send me an e-mail to [email protected] and I will make that happen. The stage I'm at in the production process is working out the last little quality control kinks in the casting process. Once I approve the master mold/process, I will begin taking orders. People on the reserved list will have three weeks to take advantage of their "first dibs" status.
TechBrute: Pricing is slowly firming up: the stock adapter (just the adapter with no pistol grip or stock) is going to be $99.00 US. I still have a little work to do to firm up pricing for the rails, however I have some targets/preliminary numbers. The rear rail adapter will be approximately $25.00 US, and a receiver length rail will be approximately $45.00 US.
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
Preacherman
Member
BBB, one question comes to mind. The AR-15/M16 collapsible stock was, I presume, engineered to withstand the relatively mild recoil of a .223/5.56mm. cartridge. How have your test units stood up to the much greater impact of 12ga. recoil? Have you strengthened them at all? Do they remain locked in position, or do they sometimes "collapse" themselves under recoil?
BrobeeBiter
Member
Preacherman: Initially I was pretty worried about the durability of the aluminum indexing holes and the steel pin that locks the stock in place on the buffer tube. I now have over 3000 rounds of slug and buck through my two test guns and have never had the stock collapse. I've been frequently inspecting the indexing holes for signs of plastic deformation, and there is none.
Based on my personal experience with my test guns, it is my opinion that a properly maintained stock should be able to stand the pounding no problem. Careful readers will have picked up on the attached condition of proper maintenance, and I believe this is important. I have seen some telescoping stocks on AR15's collapse and all have been a result of improperly tightened fasteners on the stock lock pin mechanism. I check mine every time I clean the gun.
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
Based on my personal experience with my test guns, it is my opinion that a properly maintained stock should be able to stand the pounding no problem. Careful readers will have picked up on the attached condition of proper maintenance, and I believe this is important. I have seen some telescoping stocks on AR15's collapse and all have been a result of improperly tightened fasteners on the stock lock pin mechanism. I check mine every time I clean the gun.
Sincerely,
BrobeeBiter
Andrew Wyatt
Member
No, its considerably better.
Sir Galahad
member
How is it "considerably better", Andrew?
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