You know, clicking on this thread every time it comes up in the Shotgun section really isn't helping me and is going to hurt me financially. The more I look at the pics, the more I'm liking it. Not really a fan or hater of 870s but this is making me consider.
AR15/870 CQB Shotgun
- Thread starter BrobeeBiter
- Start date
- Status
BluesBear
member
Would it be possib;e to make one of these for the Mossberg? I know the Mossberg's have a the top mounted safety, but couldn't you just lower the position of the attachment point?
If the center line of the buffer tube was on axis with the magazine tube instead of the barrel you could still access the safety and use the original sights.
If the center line of the buffer tube was on axis with the magazine tube instead of the barrel you could still access the safety and use the original sights.
Attachments
Andrew Wyatt
Member
i think that in a mossberg adaptor, no compromises should be made, and instead, the adaptor should have a trigger blocking safety, like the SKS.
These people seem to have the same idea, however they want twice as much, it seems...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=61&t=141105
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=61&t=141105
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello All!
Gewehr98: My apologies for no updates in a while...I've been really busy and progress on the adapter is happening, albeit at a slower rate than I might like. The foundry has cast what I hope will be the last bunch of quality control adapters and is heat treating them prior to final machining right now. I expect to receive a casting in the mail next week for dimensional checking while they do the machine work to the rest. I've also been dealing with a little bit of excitement over on AR15.com, making the rounds of some local 3 gun matches around my neck of the woods, and preparing some promotional material to send down to the SWAT magazine annual 3 gun championship.
For those reading, I have been maintaining a similar thread pertaining to the development of the stock adapter over on the armoury board of AR15.com. This thread has recently been locked due to my violation of some advertising policies. There are some political nuances to what has been happening over there, but by and large they are in the right. It does suck for me though as these internet forums are a great vehicle to solicit feedback and keep people abreat of the progress of the development initiative. In the mean time, I've created a *news* page on my website (www.argonautarmament.com) which I will be using as a poor substitute to post frequent updates and photographs.
The High Road Moderators: Forum participation has been extremely important and valuable to me in the development of my fledgling first product. I really hope to avoid here at the the HighRoad.org what has happened on AR15.com...if you could offer some guidelines as to what how far into the ethical grey areas I might be with repect to commercialization of the adapter and my participation on the high road, I would be sincerely grateful.
BluesBear: I'm thinking hard about the Mossberg, however my reality is that I cannot affoard to pursue the development work until the 870 adapter has enjoyed a some commercial success.
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
Gewehr98: My apologies for no updates in a while...I've been really busy and progress on the adapter is happening, albeit at a slower rate than I might like. The foundry has cast what I hope will be the last bunch of quality control adapters and is heat treating them prior to final machining right now. I expect to receive a casting in the mail next week for dimensional checking while they do the machine work to the rest. I've also been dealing with a little bit of excitement over on AR15.com, making the rounds of some local 3 gun matches around my neck of the woods, and preparing some promotional material to send down to the SWAT magazine annual 3 gun championship.
For those reading, I have been maintaining a similar thread pertaining to the development of the stock adapter over on the armoury board of AR15.com. This thread has recently been locked due to my violation of some advertising policies. There are some political nuances to what has been happening over there, but by and large they are in the right. It does suck for me though as these internet forums are a great vehicle to solicit feedback and keep people abreat of the progress of the development initiative. In the mean time, I've created a *news* page on my website (www.argonautarmament.com) which I will be using as a poor substitute to post frequent updates and photographs.
The High Road Moderators: Forum participation has been extremely important and valuable to me in the development of my fledgling first product. I really hope to avoid here at the the HighRoad.org what has happened on AR15.com...if you could offer some guidelines as to what how far into the ethical grey areas I might be with repect to commercialization of the adapter and my participation on the high road, I would be sincerely grateful.
BluesBear: I'm thinking hard about the Mossberg, however my reality is that I cannot affoard to pursue the development work until the 870 adapter has enjoyed a some commercial success.
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
Acolyte
Member
This is great! I know what I'm getting in my Christmas stocking this year! 
WOW!
I really like the design of both your stock adapter and rail. Does the rear adapter allow the use of ANY ar15 stock. Wondering if an A2/A1 would fit?
I also sent you an email tonight. Look foward to hearing from you.
Thanks
Adam
I really like the design of both your stock adapter and rail. Does the rear adapter allow the use of ANY ar15 stock. Wondering if an A2/A1 would fit?
I also sent you an email tonight. Look foward to hearing from you.
Thanks
Adam
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hi all!
Variable1: The Argonaut stock adapter has been designed for use with telescoping type stocks only. This was done intentionally in the design process and relates to the height of an 870 receiver being not as high as an AR15 lower. As such, we've eliminated the lower hole for the lock ring from the rear geometry of our adapter. In order to acommodate this one would have to lower the grip in relation to the trigger as well as modify the relational geometry of the stock adapter significantly. Both ACE and Cav Arms have done this with their adapters, however it was our opinion that there were some significant advantages to our geometry that warrented sacrificing the ability to use a regular fixed style AR stock.
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
[edited to add] Progress report: Yesterday the foundry shipped a couple of test castings to me for dimensional checking...others are in their machine shop for the final threading of holes. I should receive the test units within the next couple of days and will post photographs when it happens!
Variable1: The Argonaut stock adapter has been designed for use with telescoping type stocks only. This was done intentionally in the design process and relates to the height of an 870 receiver being not as high as an AR15 lower. As such, we've eliminated the lower hole for the lock ring from the rear geometry of our adapter. In order to acommodate this one would have to lower the grip in relation to the trigger as well as modify the relational geometry of the stock adapter significantly. Both ACE and Cav Arms have done this with their adapters, however it was our opinion that there were some significant advantages to our geometry that warrented sacrificing the ability to use a regular fixed style AR stock.
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
[edited to add] Progress report: Yesterday the foundry shipped a couple of test castings to me for dimensional checking...others are in their machine shop for the final threading of holes. I should receive the test units within the next couple of days and will post photographs when it happens!
So these are cast, not forged?
Also, are we still looking at around $99?
Will these work with ALL Remington 870s?
Will they be offered in different finishes, or unfinished, as well?
Do we have any expected dates?
Any discounts for "testers"?
Also, are we still looking at around $99?
Will these work with ALL Remington 870s?
Will they be offered in different finishes, or unfinished, as well?
Do we have any expected dates?
Any discounts for "testers"?
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello All!
Progress Report:
The foundry shipped a sample from the latest iteration of dimensional quality control castings and it arrived yesterday!
Tolerances are excellent and exceed even my wildest expectations. The foundry is currently machining for QC approval some from the same casting lot and these are expected to ship late this week. Once that has happened, barring no surprises the main production run will start immediately after!
The crappy part? Now I have to get higher rings for my slug gun, move the scope forwards, and go re-sight in before open deer season opens. *sigh...
TechBrute: They are cast from a 7000 series aluminum and then heat treated for hardness before final machining and threading. This was the only way I could keep the retail price at or under $100US. They will fit on any 12 gauge Remington 870 (I have successfully tried them on a Norinco clone, an 870 express, a police, a marine magnum, and several wingmasters of different vintages). I do not know if the receivers of the 16 or 20 gauge 870s are the same dimensions as the 12...perhaps someone might be able to comment? I am planning on finishing the first batch with a matte black polyester based powder coating or black GunKote. Other finishes may be available by special request. Dates: I'm just waiting to sign off on the machining process (expecting the test pieces to be sent late this week) before the main production run starts. It is looking like early to mid October before I will be able to start shipping orders. I'm a little embarrased about perpetually bumping the timing back, however it is important to me to work out all the details in the manufacturing process such that I can deliver what I believe to be a high quality product. Your patience is appreciated greatly.
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
Progress Report:
The foundry shipped a sample from the latest iteration of dimensional quality control castings and it arrived yesterday!
Tolerances are excellent and exceed even my wildest expectations. The foundry is currently machining for QC approval some from the same casting lot and these are expected to ship late this week. Once that has happened, barring no surprises the main production run will start immediately after!
The crappy part? Now I have to get higher rings for my slug gun, move the scope forwards, and go re-sight in before open deer season opens. *sigh...
TechBrute: They are cast from a 7000 series aluminum and then heat treated for hardness before final machining and threading. This was the only way I could keep the retail price at or under $100US. They will fit on any 12 gauge Remington 870 (I have successfully tried them on a Norinco clone, an 870 express, a police, a marine magnum, and several wingmasters of different vintages). I do not know if the receivers of the 16 or 20 gauge 870s are the same dimensions as the 12...perhaps someone might be able to comment? I am planning on finishing the first batch with a matte black polyester based powder coating or black GunKote. Other finishes may be available by special request. Dates: I'm just waiting to sign off on the machining process (expecting the test pieces to be sent late this week) before the main production run starts. It is looking like early to mid October before I will be able to start shipping orders. I'm a little embarrased about perpetually bumping the timing back, however it is important to me to work out all the details in the manufacturing process such that I can deliver what I believe to be a high quality product. Your patience is appreciated greatly.
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
gulogulo1970
Member
I'll buy one at the first of the year. Good idea!
Preacherman
Member
I've already picked out the shotgun that's going to get this adaptor... looking forward to the fitting and experimentation process!
You guys should check out these shotgun stocks:
ACE SHOTGUN PRODUCTS
http://www.riflestocks.com/shotguns.html
ACE SHOTGUN PRODUCTS
http://www.riflestocks.com/shotguns.html
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hi All!
TechBrute: The foundry I am using is also doing the machine work and the pricing I have in place with them covers both casting and machining. I think that arrangements could be made to supply unfinished ones though...
Progress Update: The foundry shipped twenty machined test pieces...they should show up any day! After completing the machine work on the dimensional test casting I received last week, I did a little investigation/experimentation into GunKote as a possible finish. A much thinner coating than the powder coating I was originally planning on using, this now has me seriously considering going this route. I'm going to GunKote my entire slug gun this weekend and will post pictures soon.
I'd be very grateful for any collective feedback on the topic of coatings...
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
TechBrute: The foundry I am using is also doing the machine work and the pricing I have in place with them covers both casting and machining. I think that arrangements could be made to supply unfinished ones though...
Progress Update: The foundry shipped twenty machined test pieces...they should show up any day! After completing the machine work on the dimensional test casting I received last week, I did a little investigation/experimentation into GunKote as a possible finish. A much thinner coating than the powder coating I was originally planning on using, this now has me seriously considering going this route. I'm going to GunKote my entire slug gun this weekend and will post pictures soon.
I'd be very grateful for any collective feedback on the topic of coatings...
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
What type of aluminum is used? Is it A356T6 or 7076T6? The A356 has a high silicone content and can't be annodized like the 7076, which is aircraft grade and significantly more expensive. Gunkote is one of the better "easy" finishes for the A356 aluminum.
I'd be inclined to get an unfinished adapter and have the whole gun refinished in a non-black color. I don't think I have a tan shotgun yet... hmmm...
I'm sure you wouldn't move many that way, but some people get a kick out of the machining aspect of it all.
Thanks, riverdog. This thread is getting kind of long and I'm sure I've forgotten some of the stuff I've read.
7000 series aluminum is generally superior to A356 aluminum for these types of applications. It can also be anodized, which is a fairly easy process to acomplish on a small scale. Many sites on the web offer info on how to anodize things in your garage.
7000 series aluminum is generally superior to A356 aluminum for these types of applications. It can also be anodized, which is a fairly easy process to acomplish on a small scale. Many sites on the web offer info on how to anodize things in your garage.
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello All!
The foundry delivered a shipment of quality control castings yesterday with the machining steps completed. 17 adapters were sent for quality control checking, and overall quality again was remarkable. In test fitting to several test guns (a 870 wingmaster and an 870 express), two minor issues were uncovered. The first one was that the 0.25inch 28tpi threaded hole was not tapped to full depth. This is easily remedied and will only require a phone call to take care of in future production runs.
The second issue relates to extremely tight tolerances where the adapter mates with the shotgun's trigger group. On the wingmaster, all the adapters fit with no issues. On the 870 express however, the plastic trigger guard was just so slightly wider that things were too tight and the adapter did not fit properly. With approximately 20 minutes of work, I made the appropriate modifications with removal of just the smallest amount of material and hand fit all 17 adapters to the 870 express. The permanent, long term fix to the second issue will require re-tooling of one of the plugs that make up the master precision investment mold, however I've decided to proceed for now with this mold as is and hand fit each adapter until the burden of doing so justifies the incremental expense of re-tooling.
This effectively gives the green light to the first main production run and e-mails for those on the *reserved list* will be going out shortly!
For those interested, deer season is coming up quick and while trying to stop chewing out my fingernails waiting for the quality control adapters to arrive, I've been tweeking and playing with my slug gun quite a bit. I recently acquired a rifled remington slug barrel, and am still stunned at how accurate it is when fed either sabboted or brenneki slugs! I re-finished the whole nine yards last weekend (it was pretty ugly before!) with Gun Kote, the results of which you can check out in the above photograph. I hope it wears as well as it prints!
(5 rounds at 50 yards.)
Techbrute: hmmm...a tan shotgun...you've got my gears turning (albeit slowly!) now! I'll save a couple of adapters from the black coating process...
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
The foundry delivered a shipment of quality control castings yesterday with the machining steps completed. 17 adapters were sent for quality control checking, and overall quality again was remarkable. In test fitting to several test guns (a 870 wingmaster and an 870 express), two minor issues were uncovered. The first one was that the 0.25inch 28tpi threaded hole was not tapped to full depth. This is easily remedied and will only require a phone call to take care of in future production runs.
The second issue relates to extremely tight tolerances where the adapter mates with the shotgun's trigger group. On the wingmaster, all the adapters fit with no issues. On the 870 express however, the plastic trigger guard was just so slightly wider that things were too tight and the adapter did not fit properly. With approximately 20 minutes of work, I made the appropriate modifications with removal of just the smallest amount of material and hand fit all 17 adapters to the 870 express. The permanent, long term fix to the second issue will require re-tooling of one of the plugs that make up the master precision investment mold, however I've decided to proceed for now with this mold as is and hand fit each adapter until the burden of doing so justifies the incremental expense of re-tooling.
This effectively gives the green light to the first main production run and e-mails for those on the *reserved list* will be going out shortly!
For those interested, deer season is coming up quick and while trying to stop chewing out my fingernails waiting for the quality control adapters to arrive, I've been tweeking and playing with my slug gun quite a bit. I recently acquired a rifled remington slug barrel, and am still stunned at how accurate it is when fed either sabboted or brenneki slugs! I re-finished the whole nine yards last weekend (it was pretty ugly before!) with Gun Kote, the results of which you can check out in the above photograph. I hope it wears as well as it prints!
(5 rounds at 50 yards.)
Techbrute: hmmm...a tan shotgun...you've got my gears turning (albeit slowly!) now! I'll save a couple of adapters from the black coating process...
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
Wow! It's AMAZING what you can miss when you're "offline" for a couple of months!
I will be resisting the urge (once they're available) to purchase any of these goodies for my Winchester Defender as I have absolutely no need for any of them... But they sure look like fun!
I am very fond of the AR15 telescoping stock configuration though.... And I do like to keep continuity between weapons when feasible...
See, there I go talking myself into it!
I will be resisting the urge (once they're available) to purchase any of these goodies for my Winchester Defender as I have absolutely no need for any of them... But they sure look like fun!
I am very fond of the AR15 telescoping stock configuration though.... And I do like to keep continuity between weapons when feasible...
See, there I go talking myself into it!
BrobeeBiter
Member
Hello...
nonbox: The initial production batch will be finished with a matte black KG Gun Kote finish. It matches quite nicely with all the parkerized 870Ps that I have seen.
Techbrute: Status on the full length rail is that I am still awaiting shipment of a significant number of 20 inch picatinny rail stock. Not sure what the holdup is (I think they are waiting for enough demand to tool up and run a big bunch), but this is preventing me from hammering out my manufacturing costs and is frustrating beyond description. As a result and looking towards the future, I've called the supplier and significantly increased the number of rails I have on order to hopefully combat future iterations of this backlog. Management of this part of Argonaut's cashflow is looking to be a little more complex than originally anticipated...
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
nonbox: The initial production batch will be finished with a matte black KG Gun Kote finish. It matches quite nicely with all the parkerized 870Ps that I have seen.
Techbrute: Status on the full length rail is that I am still awaiting shipment of a significant number of 20 inch picatinny rail stock. Not sure what the holdup is (I think they are waiting for enough demand to tool up and run a big bunch), but this is preventing me from hammering out my manufacturing costs and is frustrating beyond description. As a result and looking towards the future, I've called the supplier and significantly increased the number of rails I have on order to hopefully combat future iterations of this backlog. Management of this part of Argonaut's cashflow is looking to be a little more complex than originally anticipated...
Take care,
BrobeeBiter
Andrew Wyatt
Member
why don't you machine it in house? i don't think a picatinny rail is overly complex to make.
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