DM~
Member
I'm driveing to upstate New York... Is my S&W MP15 legal in NY?? I would like to take it with me...
DM
DM
Are AR's Legal In NYS?
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dprice3844444
member
A laymans guide to owning the AR15 type rifle in the state of New York
Or
Whats Legal, whats not and that squishy grey area in between
Part 1
Preface: In order to keep this simple, the assumption at least for now, will be that we are talking about AR15 rifles. Pistols and hybrids can be covered later.
Our definition of Ar15 rifle will be “ An ar15 type upper and lower reciever with detachable magazine, Pistol Grip, a barrel of at least 16 inches and a Buttstock.
Definitions:
Barrel length.
The barrel length is measured by placing a wooden dowel or other measuring device into the crown of the barrel and pushing it through until it contacts the face of the bolt (with the bolt closed). A mark can now be made where the dowel protrudes from the barrel crown or (permanently attached muzzle device). The dowel is now removed and measured from the end to the mark.
Permanently attached muzzle device.
A muzzle device is considered a permanent part of the barrel when.
It is seam welded in place, 1100 degree siver soldered in place or Blind pinned where the entry hole for the pin is welded over.
Evil features:
Evil features are parts of the rifle that by themselves are legal but in any combination of 2 classify the firearm as an assault weapon unless it was manufactured prior to Sept 13th 1994. This only applies to semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine.
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor; (this does not apply to permanently attached muzzle devices as described above)
(v) a grenade launcher;
Since our AR15 already has a pistol grip, any one of these items in addition would classify it as an assault weapon making it illegal in New York State.
Magazines that have a capacity of more than 10 rounds are not legal in New York unless manufactured prior to Sept 13th 1994. This is a slippery area because most magazines manufactured prior to the assault weapons ban were not date stamped.
Other things to look out for are high capacity Magazines that were modified to only accept 10rds. While there is nothing specific in the law about this, if the modification can be reversed they can be called into question.
My opinion here is if there is any question, it’s better to not have them.
New York City has some additional restrictions that make it nearly impossible to own an AR15 (this will be covered later).
Ar15 Rifles Manufactured prior to sept 13th 1994 are not subject to these rules nor are non-semi autos.
There are literally hundreds of things we can legally do to Modify, Accurize and Personalize our Ar15’s knowing what is legal and what is not, will make it that much more enjoyable and hopefully save us from being harassed.
Here is a link to the NYS sight if you want to read the actual legal Jargon.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-new_york.pdf
Or
Whats Legal, whats not and that squishy grey area in between
Part 1
Preface: In order to keep this simple, the assumption at least for now, will be that we are talking about AR15 rifles. Pistols and hybrids can be covered later.
Our definition of Ar15 rifle will be “ An ar15 type upper and lower reciever with detachable magazine, Pistol Grip, a barrel of at least 16 inches and a Buttstock.
Definitions:
Barrel length.
The barrel length is measured by placing a wooden dowel or other measuring device into the crown of the barrel and pushing it through until it contacts the face of the bolt (with the bolt closed). A mark can now be made where the dowel protrudes from the barrel crown or (permanently attached muzzle device). The dowel is now removed and measured from the end to the mark.
Permanently attached muzzle device.
A muzzle device is considered a permanent part of the barrel when.
It is seam welded in place, 1100 degree siver soldered in place or Blind pinned where the entry hole for the pin is welded over.
Evil features:
Evil features are parts of the rifle that by themselves are legal but in any combination of 2 classify the firearm as an assault weapon unless it was manufactured prior to Sept 13th 1994. This only applies to semi-automatic rifles with a detachable magazine.
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of
the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a
flash suppressor; (this does not apply to permanently attached muzzle devices as described above)
(v) a grenade launcher;
Since our AR15 already has a pistol grip, any one of these items in addition would classify it as an assault weapon making it illegal in New York State.
Magazines that have a capacity of more than 10 rounds are not legal in New York unless manufactured prior to Sept 13th 1994. This is a slippery area because most magazines manufactured prior to the assault weapons ban were not date stamped.
Other things to look out for are high capacity Magazines that were modified to only accept 10rds. While there is nothing specific in the law about this, if the modification can be reversed they can be called into question.
My opinion here is if there is any question, it’s better to not have them.
New York City has some additional restrictions that make it nearly impossible to own an AR15 (this will be covered later).
Ar15 Rifles Manufactured prior to sept 13th 1994 are not subject to these rules nor are non-semi autos.
There are literally hundreds of things we can legally do to Modify, Accurize and Personalize our Ar15’s knowing what is legal and what is not, will make it that much more enjoyable and hopefully save us from being harassed.
Here is a link to the NYS sight if you want to read the actual legal Jargon.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-new_york.pdf
dprice3844444
member
cdnnsports.com has 10 rd mags for sale
Tom488
Member
Given that you reside in a free state, I'm going to say that your rifle is NOT NY-legal, due to the following:
- Manufactured post-'94 (therefore, does not qualify as a pre-ban rifle)
- Has a collapsible stock
- Has a bayonet lug
- Has a flash suppressor
- Has a magazine greater than 10 rounds
So, unless you're willing to swap your buttstock for an A2 or similar, remove your flash suppressor and permanently install a muzzle brake, grind off your bayonet lug, and acquire some 10-round magazines, you're best off leaving the rifle at home.
ThorinNNY
Member
Poster#2 pretty well covered all the bases .I got the same .info from www.nraila.org.
I second Tom`s advice that you leave your AR at home. If you were to ina run afoul of NYS law it`s definitely going to cost lots of $ and almost certainly result in a felony conviction.
When I went to the nraila site I copied all the NYS info onto a disk since I live in NY state.
I second Tom`s advice that you leave your AR at home. If you were to ina run afoul of NYS law it`s definitely going to cost lots of $ and almost certainly result in a felony conviction.
When I went to the nraila site I copied all the NYS info onto a disk since I live in NY state.
dprice3844444
member
OP
OP
DM~
Member
Thanks guys,
Sure glad i don't live in such a screwed up place!!! Looks like i'll be leaveing it home!
DM
Sure glad i don't live in such a screwed up place!!! Looks like i'll be leaveing it home!
DM
Old Shooter
Member
You chose wisely..... 
or should it be...
Threads like these remind me of why I left NY a long, long time ago.
or should it be... Threads like these remind me of why I left NY a long, long time ago.
tyeo098
Member
dprice said:
Wouldn't a bullet button device make it not apply to the rifle? Since it a bullet button makes it a fixed magazine?
Quiet
Member
tyeo098 said:
NY, NJ & HI are more strict than CA.
CA = "bullet button" style maglock is a legal method of making a firearm operate with a fixed magazine
NY, NJ & HI = "bullet button" style maglock is not a legal method of making a firearm operated with a fixed magazine.
In order to be a fixed magazine in NY/NJ/HI, the 10 round or less magazine needs to be permanetly installed. This can be accomplished by welding the magazine into the magazine well.
tyeo098
Member
Source?
That's asinine. AN SKS's magazine isn't welded in place, and they are perfectly legal in NY.
Me thinks if you could create a bullet-button type device that LOCKED in place (i.e no removal without disassembly) the magazine, you would be good to go, as it would create an SKS-like situation.
Now I just have to find a pre-ban 30rdr to lock
Tom488
Member
The problem with the bullet button approach in NY or NJ is that there is no established definition of what constitutes a "detachable" magazine... whereas in CA, there is language right in the statute that states if a magazine requires a tool for removal, then it is not considered "detachable".
Here in NJ, and in NY, such a determination would be left up to a jury. Now - imagine the courtroom scene.... the prosecutor picks up your rifle, with a magazine held in place with a "bullet button". He takes out his pen, pushes the bullet button, and the magazine clatters to the floor. Does ANYONE on that jury (after they get over their anxiety at seeing someone not 10 feet from them holding a scary assault rifle) think that the box on the floor was NOT "detachable"?
Now... if you want to rig up said bullet button whereby it can't actuate without, say, removing a screw, or some other complex mechanical movement - then yeah, it would probably be considered a fixed magazine. But - I guarantee you'll still get arrested, and it will cost you a hell of a lot of time and money to clear yourself.
Someone on another board just related a story about someone he knew who got busted for a domestic incident, and the NJ officers confiscated his post-ban AR-15, and a Mosin-Nagant with a bayonet lug attached... claiming the AR-15 was an "illegal assault rifle", and the Mosin was illegal because it had a bayonet attached. Six months later, and $4,000 in legal fees, his possession charges were dropped, and his rifles returned.
Moral of the story? Even if you're legal, you're still subject to harassment. Best bet is to stay off the radar, and that means NOT showing up to a public range with what only APPEARS TO BE to be an illegal assault firearm.
Here in NJ, and in NY, such a determination would be left up to a jury. Now - imagine the courtroom scene.... the prosecutor picks up your rifle, with a magazine held in place with a "bullet button". He takes out his pen, pushes the bullet button, and the magazine clatters to the floor. Does ANYONE on that jury (after they get over their anxiety at seeing someone not 10 feet from them holding a scary assault rifle) think that the box on the floor was NOT "detachable"?
Now... if you want to rig up said bullet button whereby it can't actuate without, say, removing a screw, or some other complex mechanical movement - then yeah, it would probably be considered a fixed magazine. But - I guarantee you'll still get arrested, and it will cost you a hell of a lot of time and money to clear yourself.
Someone on another board just related a story about someone he knew who got busted for a domestic incident, and the NJ officers confiscated his post-ban AR-15, and a Mosin-Nagant with a bayonet lug attached... claiming the AR-15 was an "illegal assault rifle", and the Mosin was illegal because it had a bayonet attached. Six months later, and $4,000 in legal fees, his possession charges were dropped, and his rifles returned.
Moral of the story? Even if you're legal, you're still subject to harassment. Best bet is to stay off the radar, and that means NOT showing up to a public range with what only APPEARS TO BE to be an illegal assault firearm.
tyeo098
Member
We live out in the boonies in NY.
The side of a mountain with our own little range
If he was doing nothing illegal, he should have gotten one of those attorneys that deal in harassment, and sued right back.
Either way, how would one clarify this issue? (Without being on the wrong side of a jury, been there, done that)
Would calling the NY AG have any force of law?
NYSP?
Local Sherrif?
Traffic cop?
The side of a mountain with our own little range
But was this also with his 'domestic incident' charge?
If he was doing nothing illegal, he should have gotten one of those attorneys that deal in harassment, and sued right back.
Either way, how would one clarify this issue? (Without being on the wrong side of a jury, been there, done that)
Would calling the NY AG have any force of law?
NYSP?
Local Sherrif?
Traffic cop?
tyeo098
Member
Src: http://www.tenpercentfirearms.com/index.php?main_page=ar15
Therefore, if I attached a 10rd magazine, Prince50Locked it, would the magazine be declared as non-detachable? Since you cannot remove it without disassembly of the Prince50 kit.
Thoughts?
mortablunt
Member
^That might work, depending on how strict their idea of fixed magazine is.
AR-15's only legal if you get one without all the fun AR features, and the large mags are pretty much forbidden, or insanely expensive. You could get an AR-15 with all the features, but the magazine would have to be limited to 10 rounds and permanently fixed to the weapon (I'm not really a legal scholar so forgive me my mistakes). You could get one with Picatinny rails for accessories no problem. However, if you get an AR that uses detachable magazines, then the pistol grip will be the only addition evil feature you could have on it. It's only defined as an assault weapon if it possess 2 or more of the evil features while being semiautomatic and accepting detachable magazines.
AR-15's only legal if you get one without all the fun AR features, and the large mags are pretty much forbidden, or insanely expensive. You could get an AR-15 with all the features, but the magazine would have to be limited to 10 rounds and permanently fixed to the weapon (I'm not really a legal scholar so forgive me my mistakes). You could get one with Picatinny rails for accessories no problem. However, if you get an AR that uses detachable magazines, then the pistol grip will be the only addition evil feature you could have on it. It's only defined as an assault weapon if it possess 2 or more of the evil features while being semiautomatic and accepting detachable magazines.
Last edited:
tyeo098
Member
Incorrect.
They are legal if they are not defined as assault weapons. That's what this thread is discussing.
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