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Are background checks necessary?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by monotonous_iterancy, Dec 30, 2012.

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  1. rbernie
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    rbernie Member

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    And that is the great unspoken truth - background checks, for all their vaunted 'common sense' restrictions, have had NO discernible effect on crime.

    At all.

    They are the equal of TSA security - theater without utility.
     
  2. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    watching my FFL put my name and information in the NICS system countless times. The firearm is not mentioned by make/model etc. Only the general term of Handgun - Longgun - Other.
     
  3. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    so you are saying a persons private medical records should be made public...?

    psychology isnt an exact science, you cannot accurately predict how someone will react to any given scenario...

    hell, i can go to 10 different doctors, and get 10 different diagnoses as to whats wrong with me......how is that going to play into the background check system?

    millions of people take Zoloft every year....but a few develop suicidal tendencies and kill themselves.....so should anyone who takes Zoloft be denied a firearm?

    the only thing this would do would be to discourage people from seeking mental health.......this wouldnt do a thing to stop crime, and it would be detrimental to the mental health industry because it would add yet another stigma to overcome.
     
  4. 303tom

    303tom member

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    I say YES on background checks...............But that`s all.............
     
  5. skeptical_in_Ohio

    skeptical_in_Ohio Member

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    I've not viewed the process that closely, but Section D of Form 4473 seems to require Make/Model/SN/Type/Caliber of the firearm being transferred. I'd be happy to stand corrected on this.
     
  6. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Member

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    #26 got it right. The background checks are the same type of theater to make the sheeple feel safer as is the TSA checks at the airport. Every year they show us the pile of nail clippers, fingermail polish, lotions, and shampoos they have confiscated from forgetful people. The background check people can give us a list of people to whom they have blocked sales but yet people who supposed to be unable to buy a firearm commit crimes with firearms they somehow acquired. Just as with the spending problem that is bankrupting this country, politicians want to fix something that isn't the real problem.
     
  7. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    Actually, you have a background check run on you each and every time you buy a new or used car, it is a federal requirement for all dealerships that has been in effect for years now.

    Jim

    Jim
     
  8. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Apply fir a job you will be background checked
    Apply for any form of monetary credit, you will be background checked.
    Buy a car and pay cash, even this will get you background checked.

    I don't care if I am background checked, I haven't made it a focal point of my life to break the law, renege on my agreements, or refuse to pay my taxes.
     
  9. tarosean

    tarosean Member

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    Yes that is required on the form and kept by the FFL. However, it is not part of the NICS approval.
     
  10. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    As a responsible gun owner, I have no problem with checks and balances to make sure that we don't sell guns to people who should not have them. No system is perfect but as responsible gun owners we should all want to keep guns in the hands of lawful owners.

    "Shall not be infringed"?

    Well, if you are a convicted felon you gave up your rights when you did the crime and were found guilty. Now, there is a fine line between violent and non-violent felonies but as of now there is no distinction. When you choose to commit a felony you are choosing to give up your rights. Pretty cut and dried.
     
  11. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    What's the basis for the question anyway?

    Are we somehow assuming that requiring background checks would somehow reduce the violent crime rate in any way? That's not the case in California where all LEGAL firearms transfers have to go through and FFL and "background check". That's not the case in Chicago where you couldn't even legally transfer a handgun.

    Individual sales of private property in the form of firearms doesn't contribute to the statistics for firearms related deaths since criminals don't obey the law and law abiding people ...
     
  12. skeptical_in_Ohio

    skeptical_in_Ohio Member

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    Thanks for that information.

    Please educate me more - the FFL keeps it, so does that mean that the arm and the individual are tied together in its bound book, that is subject to review by BATF? If so, that seems as if it would be a defacto registry (albeit a not very efficient one).
     
  13. PedalBiker

    PedalBiker Member

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    Once again, many, many people are falsely denied a purchase due to errors in the database. Of the people turned down due to legitimate disqualification how many ended up in jail for attempting to purchase a prohibited (to them) weapon?

    If it doesn't do any good, it's not OK, even if it "feels" OK.

    Put this stuff into perspective. The guy gets into his 4000lb vehicle, drives it at a legal 55mph or more to the "gun" store. Gets turned down for a gun and drives off somewhere else.

    I'm out on your roads and highways every day on a bicycle while these prohibited people drive past me at 55mph or more with only a foot or two of clearance. If I can trust them driving a foot off of my shoulder why can't you trust them with a gun?

    If they are that dangerous they should be in medical confinement or jail. If they're not why prohibit them from having a gun? It's not like there is a background check for kitchen knives, cigarette lighters, gasoline, fertilizer, diesel fuel or rental trucks.
     
  14. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    They weren't necessary for several hundred years.

    Why now?

    And if for guns, why not for automobiles?

    Other than the Mexican guy who hopped freight trains to go from one hunting ground to another, what serial killer DIDN'T use an automobile?

    Of course with nothing in which to drive, no driveby shootings...
     
  15. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Member

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    I think a lot of people feel that not going along with background checks makes them seem like unreasonable gun owners.

    But when you think about how ineffective it is at accomplishing anything positive . . . . maybe not so unreasonable. 135 out of 8 million? Sheesh.

    I think the Canadians had something equally poor for their registration system.
     
  16. jim243

    jim243 Member

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    I'm not sure how you measure something that has not happened. Does one criminal commit only one crime or does a smaller number of criminals commit more crimes than if they commited only one. So I need to know, what is your criteria for discernible?

    So I can believe your statement.

    Jim
     
  17. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Member

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    Automobile driving is regulated. We have driver's licenses and mandatory insurance. If you habitually abuse the privelage (and get caught) you lose your license to drive. Of course, you'd be shocked at how many people drive without a license. If you are continually in accidents it will be hard or expensive to have the mandatory insurance. You would be surprised at how many people drive without insurance. You have to be a minimum age to get a license to drive. If you drink and drive you can lose your privelage to drive if caught. The vehicles we drive are also registered. They also have to pass safety inspections to be plated in many states. So, don't say driving is unregulated because it isn't. You are in databases and your record can be brought up and used against you in other states. You are not an anonymous person behind the wheel of a car.
     
  18. freyasman

    freyasman Member

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    No on background checks...
    Some people shouldn't own guns, true
    Some people shouldn't have children, (or at least they shouldn't be allowed to raise them), but where does one person get the right to tell another that?
    Once you start, where do you stop?
     
  19. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Can you tell me of a state where:
    • convicted felons (apart from those convicted of certain vehicular offenses) are barred from owning or operating motor vehicles?
    • a background check (for non-vehicular offenses) is required prior to the purchase or operation of a motor vehicle?
    • driver's licenses from ANY other state are NOT valid?
     
  20. PedalBiker

    PedalBiker Member

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    And of course, the law abiding follow those rules while the criminals do not.

    I was in a hit and run in NC. The police did find the guy - no insurance and he wasn't prosecuted.

    My brother in law was in a hit and run. The police figured out who the driver most likely was and that guy already had multiple warrants out for his arrest. As far as I know he's still at large.

    Rules and regulations are fairly good at helping to manage "accidentally" sorts of stuff. For instance, there are very few gun accidents at schools. Rules and regulations help to convict those who refuse to participate in society and provide a means to discourage those who have only modest criminal inclinations.

    Laws are not moral exercises. If they don't work, no matter how noble they need to be scrapped.
     
  21. monotonous_iterancy

    monotonous_iterancy Member

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    I was just wondering what sort, if any, regulations you all were okay with. We often talk about rolling back gun control, but is there a point where we say "We're okay with this, we'll hold the line here."?

    Also, on a somewhat related note, after 20 years, what happens to your 4473?
     
  22. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    I have bought guns from several different gun shops. The paperwork is extensive...it's WA St, I dont know if it's different elsewhere.

    So altho I've been told that information is not sent to nor retained by the fed govt.....isnt it retained somewhere?

    My question is: does the state or fed govt have a record of all my firearms? I'm pretty sure they do. And that is what I object to.

    It's one thing to check and see if I can legally own one, however all the other information they take isnt about me...it's about the gun. Because they have to account to someone for the gun.
     
  23. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    I dont really know how we can know that. Just IMO, I doubt it. Anyone that wants one and doesnt qualify for one wont bother, they'll just 'acquire' it elsewhere. Again....only the law-abiding actually obey laws.

    I do think that background checks...and the waiting period if you dont have a cc permit...may stop some people from buying on the spur of the moment to commit a crime of passion or desperation. Again, just IMO.

    The CT shooter tried and was turned down but unfortunately, that drove him to just take his mothers'. So where does that leave us? :(
     
  24. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    I think so.
     
  25. 9MMare

    9MMare Member

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    Yes I agree but I also think they are keeping records of who's got what.

    I know that sounds paranoid....'they, they.' Sorry.
     
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