Are Gun Owners Selfish.....

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by BigBore44, Feb 25, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Messages:
    3,040
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Laziness and procrastination are pretty common human behaviors that have nothing to do with selfishness. I think those two behaviors have a lot to do with why some people don't become active in supporting RKBA groups. They say the 2A is important and they say they support keeping it, but they don't actually DO anything about it.
     
    Blue Jays and Dibbs like this.
  2. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,598
    hso, you're right, but, IMO, I don't think it's because gun owners are particularly "selfish".

    Do you tip, at a restaurant? I used to work for tips, so having worked in the service field, and identified with other service workers, I tip well.
    But have you ever watched, and listened to a companion, co-worker, or acquaintance, who doesn't tip ? They will usually dredge up some lame ass, or mealy-mouthed excuse why they don't tip. I even had a friend who would put the waiter thru the nines, make a special order, out of every meal, run the poor guy ragged, then wait for any excuse or minor mistake to say, under her breath "FINE! You're not getting any tip from me!" One time, she refused to tip because the diner used powdered pepper, instead of flake pepper. But the real truth, once you pinned her down, and made her spit it out, was she simply wasn't ever going to ever tip anybody.
    But the point is you either tip, or you don't, and the people who don't generally like to make up excuses or point to justifications why they shouldn't tip. If a waiter or waitress makes one mistake, then THAT is the perfect justification NOT to tip.

    So you can probably see where I'm going with this. The NRA Board Of Directors, with their lavish salaries and perks, all paid for, by us, is giving all the folks who aren't going to contribute a dime to the cause, anyway, broad and perfect justification, thru their actions, and the way they waste NRA funds, very plausible excuses for being too cheap to contribute, in the first place.
     
    Monac likes this.
  3. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    61,248
    Location:
    0 hrs east of TN
    That's a false dichotomy argument. You're right on target that that there are people that won't ever donate a penny or make any personal effort. Sadly some people's nature. You're also correct that there are people that will use the NRA as an excuse for why they won't help any of the other organizations that aren't the NRA. It isn't logical since the other organizations aren't the NRA, but they cite the NRA's flaws as a reason they won't donate money or time and ignore that there are alternatives, even when the alternatives have been pointed out.

    A lot of people are full of ... excuses ... for why they won't contribute in any way to any group or why they themselves won't make the effort they don't see being made. It is good to see others here talking about it.

    BTW, I hate mean restaurant customers and intentionally cheap tippers too. I've even added a tip to another table a time or two to spite those folks.
     
    BigBore44 likes this.
  4. Dibbs

    Dibbs Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,598
    OTOH, I no longer leave the tip at the table, I've seen too many tip thieves. I hand the tip to, and thank the waiter directly. Needless to say, if it's any establishment you use regularly, wait staff are very helpful, to customers they know and like.

    Like bad tippers, these cheap people see the NRA antics as an out. They now have their excuse. It's now their Laminated Justification for how they can avoid paying participation. They aren't going to allow themselves to get pulled back into having to contribute, by the GOA, SAF, VGOA, NSSF, JPFO, etc.
     
    hso likes this.
  5. tws3b2

    tws3b2 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2019
    Messages:
    521
    Location:
    Asheboro NC
    Gun owner's are selfish. This is a Me, Me, Me society. All people are Selfish, Arrogant with a whole lot of stupid thrown in.
     
  6. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    4,265
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    They absolutely have to do with selfishness. In their most basic form: Laziness is selfishness with your effort. Procrastination is selfishness with your time.
    (For the record, I always tip) If you reach in your wallet (or purse) to pay the tab or pay the check, and you don’t include a tip (assuming the waiter/waitress/bartender are not completely worthless), that is pure selfishness. You are reaping the rewards of other’s work without providing compensation or appreciation (in the form of a tip). If that’s not selfishness, I don’t know what is.
    And they can make up any excuse or justification they want. But the truth is, short of having some unforeseen and accidental monetary error where they honestly thought they have more money than they do, they are selfish. I had this exact thing happen at a restaurant once. And I felt absolutely horrible. My bank had locked my card because I was using it out of state and it was after banking hours. I apologized profusely to the waitress. I even showed her how much I had in my account through my online banking app. I asked her if she was working the next day (she was) and came back and paid her tip to the sum of the full amount of my previous nights bill. But a tip and the preservation of Constitutional rights are not the same. However, if I had to take odds to Vegas, I’d bet if those same people were gun owners, they likely don’t donate to any Pro 2A organizations either.
     
  7. wiscoaster

    wiscoaster Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2019
    Messages:
    3,040
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Nice point. In that light, I stand corrected. :thumbup:

    The thread seems oriented toward selfishness with financial resources, and it was in that context that my thoughts were, but effort and time are both legitimate resources, and valuable resources as well, that deserve consideration as worthy contributions toward "the cause".
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
    BigBore44 likes this.
  8. DeepSouth
    • Contributing Member

    DeepSouth Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Heart of Dixie
    You missed the point. You are marking a moral argument that other people should spend their $50 here rather than there... well people with other moral arguments can do the same thing.
    It has no end.
     
    BigBore44 likes this.
  9. bassjam

    bassjam Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    Cincinnati
    OP you convinced me. I renewed my SAF membership last month, but I just went to their site and donated a little extra a few minutes ago.

    Next I need to decide what to do at the state level. I've been a member of Buckeye Firearms Association, but Ohioans for Conceal Carry appears to be another good choice and they don't seem to care for each other and I'm not exactly sure why.

    Edit, got my answer. Looks like I joined ORCC in 2019 and let let my BFA expire. Just renewed OFCC for another year.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
    hso and BigBore44 like this.
  10. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    11,510
    Location:
    DFW (formerly Brazos County), Texas
    And some significant portion of those did so as a result of the constant drumbeat against NRA for at least the last four decades (so not just versus the current NRA woes).

    NRA is just the most visible of the Rights Agencies out there; if people won't support them, they are under-likely to seek out the other agencies they ought to be supporting.

    So, part of this is about having the ability, the gumption, to busk all the social stigma--real or imagined--to contribute.

    Human nature is complex. It's tough sledding to predict or anticipate. And, all too easy to castigate the flaws seen in others. So, really, our watchword ought to be to not shout, not insist, not demand. Which is sore complicated when constantly being barrages by shouting, by insistence, by demands, from our foes.

    We gun owners, if you will allow me a generalization, are given to a stubborn independent streak. "I ain't doin' it; an' you can't make me!" We encompass a group that largely wants to be left alone. Leading by example only works if those 'following' are paying attention.

    It does not help that we get all hung up on intellectual purity, too. Any minor deviation from the True Path gets a person condemned as a heretic or an apostate. Making claims that there are the ideologically impure within a group has long been used as a tool to destabilize such groups, too.
     
    Commader47 and Hartkopf like this.
  11. BigBore44

    BigBore44 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2013
    Messages:
    4,265
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Go back to post #22 and read my first 2 paragraphs. At no point did I say people “should”. I simply provided figures to show what could be accomplished if people did. This was never an argumentative or accusatory thread. And I made it a point to not word it in such a way. This was a thread about introspection. And whatever determination you made or action you take after that, is up to you.

    I’ll even give you a figure and put it into perspective that will really blow your mind. $50 can absolutely be viewed as a pretty decent amount to donate. So instead of donating $50 at once, what if WE donated $5 a month. That’s less than $1.50 a week. What’s that, a candy bar? A single bottle of pop from a vending machine? Cant even buy a meal from McDonalds for $5. And that’s just once a month. Except now, we just went from $4.25 Billion, to $5.1 Billion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
    Commader47 likes this.
  12. mistermills357

    mistermills357 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    West Virginia
    I am going to get ammo with my stimulus check, maybe a .357 too. And I feel fine with that decision. I am not obligated to support the NRA, I sent them $1,000 in 1980 for a Benefactor membership. I am not saying that I won’t send more, but right now I want good ammo. I don’t know what is coming in the near or far future. But it might be violent.
     
  13. DeepSouth
    • Contributing Member

    DeepSouth Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Heart of Dixie
    I understand you didn’t use the words “should” I understand you specifically said people can do what they want with their money.
    But the fact remains you made the post and sighted the stats to point out what we could do, well why would do that? Possibly because you view that as what we should do? I would hope so, and I would agree like I said previously I give substantially more than the number you use.

    Honestly, I completely agree with you, your math is right and I’ll even say gun owners should be donating to pro-2A causes if they want to keep the right. but with respect it’s a pipe dream. The 80/20 rule applies all over the place including with gun owners, frankly I bet it’s worse than that.


    I mean if we all ~85million or so gun owners voted pro-2A we probably wouldn’t have to donate any money, but that’s just as likely to happen as getting all 85 million to care enough to depart with any amount of money. Further, I know a few gun owners who are admittedly anti-gun, don’t ask me I don’t understand it either but I tell you they exist.
     
    BigBore44 likes this.
  14. Commader47

    Commader47 member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    48
    People that don't don't understand the way multi national organizations work, or don't care, or don't want to, simply rationalize not supporting.

    If someone with a clothing allowance to attend high level Congressional meetings, a travel allowance and expense account, and is the single most successful proponent of 2A rights keeps you from spending a lousy $40.00? Well, I guess you have to live with that.

    Liberals fear and loathe the NRA. Why? Because there are a "MEASLY" 5.5 million dues paying and giving members that are out there fighting the fight EVERY DAY, in EVERY STATE. Relentlessly with a team of lawyers and professional lobbyists. NRA is a multi faceted organization with many many many programs to include the legal fight, civilian marksmanship, training and more. .

    Not a couple of guys with regular jobs who write letters from time to time. Not that these guys aren't well meaning. They just don't have the assets or know how. GOA teamed up with NRA to work on the CCW reciprocity bill.

    This has worked out pretty well:
    https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/

    And just another comparison of why our combined support is important:
    Election spending 2020
    NRA 18.2 mil
    GOA 800,000

    And NRA did that while under CONSTANT attack by New York, and a gigantic publicity smear attack. Regrettably, the smears worked and our side stayed home.
     
  15. orionengnr

    orionengnr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,550
    My wife and I are both NRA Life Members, and have been for years. (She is also an Endowment Member.)
    We are both also Life Members of TSRA, and have been so for "almost as many" years.

    Not to say that we couldn't do more, but I'm not going to listen too much to people making generalized statements...
     
  16. Larry Ashcraft

    Larry Ashcraft Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    12,866
    Location:
    Home of Heroes, Pueblo, CO, USA
    This one is circling the drain and devolving into personal attacks.

    Closed
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice