Are gun sales going down

[Varminterror]

20 years ago

~25 years ago, I paid 59¢/gal for gas every Thursday morning, with 79¢/gal regular price. I paid $150 for my Nokia cell phone, and paid $27/pair for wrangler jeans. In 2002, I rented a 1400 sqft 1 bedroom apartment on the top of a split level house at just under market value for $300/mo (their list was $350/mo) from a family friend who had bought the house for their daughter. Wanna compare that to 2025 pricing? $150 for the phone doesn't pay for even 1/4 of an iPhone 16, even the inflated price of $150 in 2000 would only be $276 in 2025, but the basic iPhone 16, the current market base model akin to the Nokia 3310 in 2000, is selling for $850. Inflating gas from 79¢/gal would be $1.46/gal today, and I sure would rather pay that than the ~$2.75/gal I'm paying this month - and in 2000, we weren't buying E10 at that price, that was <E5, which is selling today over $3.25/gal. Our friends still own that rental house, they have it rented at $750/mo today, which is $130 more than inflated $350/mo. In 2000, a dozen eggs was $1 including tax, which SHOULD be $1.77 today, but instead, we're paying just under 50¢/egg, and a dozen is on the shelf at $4.90...

30 years ago, young people didn't have the inherent cost of cell phones and didn't live in a society where home internet service was necessary, and weren't paying product pricing ahead of inflation based on the mistakes of generations before them.

THIS calculus is the reason why I suggest against firearms as investments. It's incredibly rare to find firearms which actually appreciate ahead of inflation over time. Guns are cheaper than ever, but living isn't.

 

[dogtown tom]

It's maybe a good topic for a different thread. But I sense you taking this personally too for some reason (bolded pronouns and such). We're on the same side.

It would if your assertion were true. I'm not convinced it is.
Name the gun manufacturers that don't endorse the Second Amendment.

And its not personal. I never met Bill Ruger.


Now, if you consider that NSSF (the firearm industry trade group) didn't lift a finger to lobby Congress about the importation of surplus military rifles.....that's not the same as not endorsing the Second Amendment, but endorsing the business interest of their membership.

 

[dogtown tom]

.....Even in this forum the amount of people who have worn out a gun, much less multiple is next to none. I have guns well over 100 year old. I have ww2 guns. I have ww1 guns. It's not easy to kill a gun. I have shot one sig until it was gone but a frame fixed it. I have another sig the slide is cracked so its pretty well gone. I'll buy a slide amd keep trucking. I have one smith and one colt that are pretty much gone but both could be fixed. Short of competition it's unusual. Even leo and professional hunters usually don't. They sell or trade. Maybe rebarrel. But rarely wear them out.

Next to none in this forum?.............You, by yourself have three.
If guns never broke or never wore out, explain why gunsmiths exist.

 

[Ignition Override]

None of this seems to matter if you want to Buy a gun now. Only for sellers do there seem to be frequent problems.

One permanent factor now, although some people will continue to fantasize about how much lower ammo prices soon could be, is the price of basic .308 ammo.
I've seen so many (vetted, skilled assembly) 7,62x51/.308 Battle Rifles at "market used prices" take days or weeks to 'move', on certain gun forum Marketplaces. Plenty of eyeballs see those ads with nice photos.

 

[Barmcd]

The on line consignment list at the chain gun store near me has doubled in size in the last two months, lots of 95 to 99% conditions listed, so they weren’t shot much (if at all).

Online Gun Rack

Turner’s Outdoorsman | Turner's Outdoorsman gun store is conveniently located in California with a huge range of hunting, shooting and fishing gear. We are serving for last 52 years.

www.turners.com

There are still some complete yahoos who demand the stores ask insane prices for their consignment guns, like this run of the mill 4” S&W Model 66 .357 lowered to a mere $2,500 from the sellers original $3,000 asking price, but others are priced to move (Well, at Ca prices anyway.)

View attachment 1254305

$4.50 gal gas and ever higher rent, insurance, utility and food prices are starting to hurt folks a lot.

(But the range has been busier than it was last year, which is a good sign.)

Stay safe.

Insurance costs are through the roof.

 

[Rockrivr1]

They drive new cars and finance everything. I rode with a kid the other day in high-school who was on a 30k dollar motorcycle. They can afford guns. Taco bell pays 15 dollars an hour. Walmart near 20 and I'm in appalachia.... not new York city or California. 2 weeks pay can buy a new python much less a canik.

I'll be the first to admit that my wife and I make good money. A nice house, two newish SUVs and money in the bank. Though it took us years to get where we are now. I've been building my gun collection since I was 22 and I'm 58 now, so yeah, it's gotten good and I have some nice stuff. It comes, I thought, through hard work and dedication to ones craft.

Today I'm heading home from the store during my lunch break and there is a twenty something year old that pulls out in front of me in a tricked out Audia RS Q8. Grey and blacked out. Sweet, but it ticked me off a little as that kid had a much better car than me as he's rolling around in a $130K car. Just so happens to be one of my dream cars that will never happen. Some people have instant gratification and that's great, but at what cost. Wonder how that kid will handle things if they ever get tough for him.

 

[230RN]

Those were the days. But alot of smaller gun shops closed up shop.

That's the true tragedy of our previous rulers' reign with an iron pen.

Even though I've transferred most things to my sons, a little light in my head is shining on things that I might get or do that were previously illegal or administratively "discouraged" by the dictators that be... or "were."

So I'm kinda holding off, waiting for the legal situation to clear itself up

Terry, 23R0N

 

[crestoncowboy]

Next to none in this forum?.............You, by yourself have three.
If guns never broke or never wore out, explain why gunsmiths exist.

Whos point are you making? If people were throwing away guns and having to replace them we wouldn't need gunsmith in the first place.....small parts break. 20 bucks fixes most anything on the newer guns. They don't get tossed. Most are still in use.

I reload and have 3 progressive presses. Ive spent more on ammo than most people do on a new truck... this decade.... I'm the exception though. Most people never wear out a gun.

I'll be the first to admit that my wife and I make good money. A nice house, two newish SUVs and money in the bank. Though it took us years to get where we are now. I've been building my gun collection since I was 22 and I'm 58 now, so yeah, it's gotten good and I have some nice stuff. It comes, I thought, through hard work and dedication to ones craft.

Today I'm heading home from the store during my lunch break and there is a twenty something year old that pulls out in front of me in a tricked out Audia RS Q8. Grey and blacked out. Sweet, but it ticked me off a little as that kid had a much better car than me as he's rolling around in a $130K car. Just so happens to be one of my dream cars that will never happen. Some people have instant gratification and that's great, but at what cost. Wonder how that kid will handle things if they ever get tough for him.

My county consolidated schools when I was a Jr in 2000. I drove a petty slick 86 mustang. 89 HP 2.3. I parked between a Viper and a TT. Lol. I didn't have money. But they sure did. Again, Walmart starts at near 20 an hour. That 3x minimum wage. In 2000 those jobs paid minimum wage. There are tons of 6 figure work from home jobs. Walmart in my town pays 4 less dollars an hour than my wife made as a rn in 2001. Same town.

 

[Varminterror]

The parents and grandparents of 20yr old kids have established a culture of consumer debt - raising from $1.4 trillion in 1980 (which would be equivalent to $5.4T today) to a staggering 18 Trillion today, three times the common consumer debt only 2 generations ago... So these 20yr old kids have never seen what debt-free living looks like. They have seen their parents and grandparents using debt to bury themselves throughout their entire lives. Those kids born in 1995 to 2005, those kids taking on their first taste of debt in the last few years, were shown the way by their parents and grandparents - typically the folks doing the most talking about how irresponsible are their kids and grandkids for taking on so much debt...

 

[Varminterror]

20 bucks fixes most anything on the newer guns.

That definitely has NOT been my experience...

 

[Walkalong]

Not for me. When i was 18 (2000 ish

`1975 for me.

 

[crestoncowboy]

The parents and grandparents of 20yr old kids have established a culture of consumer debt - raising from $1.4 trillion in 1980 (which would be equivalent to $5.4T today) to a staggering 18 Trillion today, three times the common consumer debt only 2 generations ago... So these 20yr old kids have never seen what debt-free living looks like. They have seen their parents and grandparents using debt to bury themselves throughout their entire lives. Those kids born in 1995 to 2005, those kids taking on their first taste of debt in the last few years, were shown the way by their parents and grandparents - typically the folks doing the most talking about how irresponsible are their kids and grandkids for taking on so much debt...

View attachment 1254777

Im 45 ish and my parents are about the only ones I knew who didn't go financing everything and we aren't in a wealthy community. Probably why I thought we were so poor. Lol. When our house was almost done (I was around 8) my mom begged dad to just go get a loan and finish it but he wouldn't. He would buy 3-4 sheets of paneling with his check. Lol. Drove a 70s jungle safari catalina wagon with a 455. Probably costed more for gas than the paneling.

And your right. I'm still buddies with the viper guy and the TT guy. Neither has any sense with money. Ones a detective the other is a state inspector. Both of their parents eventually lost their homes.

 

[LV Gun]

I am trying to help bought a new RIA 1911 Ultra FS in 40 S&W for $575. 00 out the door LGS had them on sale I couldn’t walk away from it, plus I like the 40 S&W cartridge. I have a Springfield XD in 40 also.

 

[.308 Norma]

He would buy 3-4 sheets of paneling with his check. Lol. Drove a 70s jungle safari catalina wagon with a 455. Probably costed more for gas than the paneling.

 

[wayneinFL]

The parents and grandparents of 20yr old kids have established a culture of consumer debt - raising from $1.4 trillion in 1980 (which would be equivalent to $5.4T today) to a staggering 18 Trillion today, three times the common consumer debt only 2 generations ago... So these 20yr old kids have never seen what debt-free living looks like. They have seen their parents and grandparents using debt to bury themselves throughout their entire lives. Those kids born in 1995 to 2005, those kids taking on their first taste of debt in the last few years, were shown the way by their parents and grandparents - typically the folks doing the most talking about how irresponsible are their kids and grandkids for taking on so much debt...

View attachment 1254777

My kids are better than I was about taking on debt. They all have savings accounts.

But I see a lot of kids their age financing cars and buying luxuries.

For young people in their area, $20/hour is a good job and a starter home is $400K. At that point buying a home and having kids is like buying a spaceship. It's far outside the realm of possibility. So why not put a $5 cup of coffee on a credit card? Not going to make a lot of difference.

 

[230RN]

Re guns and other consumables:

DOB 1939 here. Growing up, as I recall, the "only" household debts in the general population were mortgages and occasionally time payments for cars and other householdey things. Like for the Encyclopedia Britannica... not a joke.

Over time, as credit card spending crept down to we, the hoi pilloi, it had developed that merchants preferred the relatively instant income from credit card transactions rather than "time payment" debt to them, and consumers liked the "big deal" of whipping out a credit card --as if they were "heavy hitters."

It looks to me that the forces generating our huge debt level came from both directions: the merchants and their customers.

Happy, happy, happy !

And it didn't help that the war debt seemed to become deferrable from year to year by simply expanding the statutory U.S. debt limit each and every budget year.... what the hell we're only spending "votes," and we don't have to pay it off in dollars this year, wait till next year. That may have changed of late <ahem, koff-koff, grin-grin> but in the meantime, the hell with our grandchildren who may have to pay it off in full. Or better yet, our great-grandchildren. Since both sets of progeny are essentially invisible to the credit-lovers of today.

Happy, happy, happy !

Well, on target or not, that's the way it looks to this senior citizen with respect to guns and other consumables.

"I'll start my diet tomorrow."

Terry, 230RN

 

[Varminterror]

Kids of the '80s remember "layaway" at stores, where a product was held until full payment was made. Kids of the '90s and '00s have no such memory, because credit card debt displaced that mechanism.

That isn't the fault of the Gen Z's now entering the workforce and now incurring their own debts. That's the fault of a national culture of debt. The few of us representing cash-on-hand accounting and accountability for our personal finances are simply too few - we can't overturn the national culture. Our sons and daughters may grow to be 18, even 25 without debt - even if they make it out of college without taking student loan debt - but there are EXTREMELY high odds that they will marry someone holding more than $20,000 in consumer debt and $35,000 in student loan debt. Over half of used car purchases and over 3/4 of new car purchases are "financed," just under 1/2 of all cell phone purchases made in the US are "financed".

We've had multiple warnings in the last 40yrs since we started this nonsense. But there's no end in sight... At least not a pleasant end...

 

[yzguy87]

I think the wise thing to do is not focus on the slump in sales as a bad thing but to take advantage of it as much as possible.

 

[Archie]

I am satisfied gun sales are down.
I have all the 'using' guns I will ever need. (In my middle 70s and don't hunt; too dang cold out there.) I do acquire a number of firearms, but they are all used. Which likely doesn't do much for manufacturers.

i have discovered many of the 'new' guns are mostly of the "New! Improved! sort of thing. I would not be shocked if a good percentage of the shooting public have also noted this. So they are buying 'new' guns as much.

Just a thought.

 

[Walkalong]

Just turned 68, have my eye on a number of guns I want.

Most people have too much debt, they buy to big on houses, cars, toys, and they’ll suffer for it long term.

After working for 47 years, married for forty years of it, my wife and I have very little debt. I’ll be able to buy a gun here and there.

 

[wayneinFL]

Just turned 68, have my eye on a number of guns I want.

Most people have too much debt, they buy to big on houses, cars, toys, and they’ll suffer for it long term.

After working for 47 years, married for forty years of it, my wife and I have very little debt. I’ll be able to buy a gun here and there.

We've been relatively thrifty as well, and sold ourselves out of debt a couple of years ago. After working for 37 years, married for 35 of it, we have no debt, but no retirement savings or pension. At 53, I have a short time to work like hell and put something away for retirement.

I'm the spender of the family. Cheap guns to be had isn't going to help me meet that goal.

I think the wise thing to do is not focus on the slump in sales as a bad thing but to take advantage of it as much as possible.

This goes for guns and everything else. Guns are mostly depreciating assets so I'm going to TRY to concentrate on things that make money.

Kids of the '80s remember "layaway" at stores, where a product was held until full payment was made. Kids of the '90s and '00s have no such memory, because credit card debt displaced that mechanism.

I worked at Kmart for 7 years starting in 1987 and I saw more 80s kids stealing stuff than I ever saw using layaway. Before Napster was a thing, one of my classmates had sewed a pocket on the inside of his jacket the exact size of a cassette tape with the big plastic antitheft thing on it. I saw him show it off in class. Also saw him get dragged out of Kmart in handcuffs.

 

[MikeInOr]

Nothing beat the deals/pricing from 2017-2019! I wished I had more money back than, As i bought as much as I could. Some of them were almost unbelievable. $79 dollars for a brand new Remington 700, Walther P99's for $289, Brand new glocks for 349.99, You could build a basic AR15 for less than $300. $6 dollar mags. Those were the days. But alot of smaller gun shops closed up shop.

Sorry, the military surplus deals in the 80's and 90's was the golden age of firearm buying.

 

[230RN]

Slightly off topic warning re:

Just turned 68, have my eye on a number of guns I want.

Most people have too much debt, they buy to big on houses, cars, toys, and they’ll suffer for it long term.

After working for 47 years, married for forty years of it, my wife and I have very little debt. I’ll be able to buy a gun here and there.

I have no credit report.

I have no debts beyond the monthly automatic payments from my checking account. I have a credit card where I asked them to keep the limit down to $2500 to limit my liability if the card is stolen. I frequently have a positive balance in there because I usually put money in it before using it on something bigger than usual or just to keep spending records.

My car insurance rate suddenly jumped from about 900 a month to about 1400 a month with no collision on it.

Reason: Bad (that is "no") credit report. My insurance company thought my driving risks are 36% greater because of this.

This, despite the fact that I had been paying below 900 for several decades to them with no problem, and that I had no tickets or accidents for well over 25 years. Conclusion? They automatically leaped on raising my rates on an actuarial basis rather than a reality basis. Explaining this was useless. "Those are the rules." Period.

I think those rules were designed as an excuse to jump rates as an unfair business practice.

Terry

 

[dogtown tom]

Sorry, the military surplus deals in the 80's and 90's was the golden age of firearm buying.

Sorry, but the Golden Age Of Firearms Buying was anytime before 1968.
Don't believe me? Read any 1960's gun rag.

 

[AlexanderA]

A lot of people say that's why the gun industry thrives the way it does. The gun manufacturers stirring up fear.

I wouldn't say the gun industry is stirring up fear. That would be conspiracy theorizing. But the gun industry is very good at exploiting fear.

Fear of bans is caused by the activities of the antigunners. Every time a ban is seriously proposed, people go out and buy more guns. So, on the whole, everything that the antis have done has been counterproductive (from their point of view). If the antigun movement didn't exist, there would actually be far fewer guns in private hands. Ironic.