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Are guns a parallel to SUVs?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by winstonsmith, Mar 21, 2004.

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  1. winstonsmith

    winstonsmith Member

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    People hate assault weapons for the same reason they hate SUVs. Not because of what they are, because of what they represent. Pickup trucks use just as much gas and put out just as much pollution, and hunting and sporting rifles kill just as dead. But SUVs represent affluence and effective weapons represent freedom. Two qualities people who can't or won't acquire-hate.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    It's more than a coincidence that the people who hate S.U.V.s hate guns. I believe they hate anyone and everyone who declines to embrace their "values."

    The like to call themselves "progressives," but they're every bit as hostile toward ordinary law-abiding American citizens as white supremacists are to blacks and Jews.
     
  3. Josey

    Josey member

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    Interesting analogy. I don't embrace it completely. I feel that the radical environmentalists hate everything that represents POWER. SUVs and firearms empower one over them and their world. I have talked to PETA protesters and the one common denominator was their feeling of inferiority. Everyone was bigger than them, had better jobs, higher incomes, higher IQs and dressed in the poor creatures of the forest. I always thought the government should start a welfare program for these poor PETA members. Imagine government sponsored boot camps to teach the weak how to hunt, fish, shoot, off road and actualise themselves. It would work like the old government cheese handout. There would be BBQ pork, a Hummer, a 1911, a wool and camo entitlement and a tax credit for those who bring themselves to the table with food. Food that they have stalked, shot, dressed and prepared properly. Oh well, I can fantasize.
     
  4. Arcli9ht

    Arcli9ht Member

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    This probably wasnt your intent, but I am an avid shooter that happens to despise SUV's. Well, at least as they are used on my stomping grounds in NYC.

    Here, as well as in other urban and suburban centers, people buy the biggest, most gas guzzling monster they can in an attempt to feel better about their poor driving skills and fear of the road.

    These vehicles will never be used for their intended purpose (although their owners go on about how glad they are to have a huge 4x4 when we get half an inch of snow... somehow managing to get stuck in the snow and into dumb, easily preventable accidents anyway).

    SUV's here are about excess.. which is not necessarily true about firearms. There is excess with some firearms, but usually they're not the type the gun-grabbing crowd is after.

    NFA toys and stuff banned by the AWB are not hated because of their excess or environmental impact, but because of the social conditioning that has been drilled into the heads of the sheeple.

    /Arcli9ht
     
  5. RobertHankins

    RobertHankins Member

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    Packin an H&K in my Denalli
     
  6. swingset

    swingset Member

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    But, would you deny these people the right to choose what kind of vehicle they drive? If so, you certainly wouldn't mind someoen denying you the same right when it's time to choose a gun. A single shot .22 is all you'll need.

    I don't drive, or own an SUV. But, if I should want one for convenience or family reasons, I sincerely hope they're still available to buy.

    Same goes for an AK.
     
  7. Mulliga

    Mulliga Member

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    Obviously, no one here is advocating banning SUVs. It's simply a social choice - if people really need one (i.e., for hauling kids or equipment), more power to them - but if you just buy one because they're "in," you're simply increasing our dependence on foreign oil.

    Guns are a poor parallel to cars. Guns are weapons, cars are not. Guns almost never become obsolete - the old Kentucky rifles can still kill you just as dead as a brand new .308. Guns can assassinate corrupt politicians...well, so can cars, but that's another thread ;).
     
  8. Arcli9ht

    Arcli9ht Member

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    Valid point. Freedom is a two way street, for better or for worse.

    I've had the "but you dont need" argument applied to my firearms choices many times by family and friends, and I usually apply that same logic back at them about their choice of vehicle or size of their house. They dismiss it saying "it's not the same thing" even though at heart, it truely is.

    Just because they can buy and drive a monster doesn't mean I have to like it though. I would tolerate them a lot better if I wasn't restricted in the selection for my hobby. :p

    I guess its time for bed when part of the logic of what I am saying is coming from southpark. :confused:

    /Arcli9ht

    "Look, just because you have to tolerate something doesn't mean you have to approve of it! If you had to like it, it'd be called the Museum of Acceptance! "Tolerate" means you're just putting up with it! You tolerate a crying child sitting next to you on the airplane or, or you tolerate a bad cold. It can still piss you off!"
     
  9. glockcrazy

    glockcrazy Member

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    I think its like Josey said...
    The common denominator is a feeling of inferiority among peta protesters....

    They get to feeling like that for whatever reason and start thinking everything they don't have is.....Evil.
    When its really just envy.....but you won't catch them admitting it....

    mike

    ps....i noticed a previous post having a "quote" on it....I have'nt seen a quote button...i assumed this forum did'nt have that option.....did i miss something? Or did you put it in manually?
     
  10. SteelyDan

    SteelyDan Member

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    My 2 cents: I think there is a very significant percentage of the population that buys into at least some of the political correctness philosophy that pervades so much of the mainstream media. Within that group, I think there is a range of opinions on what is incorrect. My personal-and- unfounded-and-unsupported opinion is that about 20-25% of the population hates anything to do with guns, and 15% of the population hates SUVs. I suspect there is a strong overlap among those two groups.
     
  11. raz-0

    raz-0 Member

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    I'm with standing wolf on this. Your average liberal with a cause is about the most close-minded, senseless, and neo-fascist individuals around. They'd love nothing better than to have some central authority forcing everyone to obey their personal morality at every turn. Quite often while not exactly leading by example.

    There's nothing like a neo-hippy teenage chick wearing leather boots protesting culling the deer population while the deer are starving to death because shooting them would be cruel.
     
  12. c-bag

    c-bag Member

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    There are legitimate problems w/ SUVs, namely that they use too much gas, are less stable during emergency manuvers, tend to drive over other vehicles in crashes, give drivers a false sense of security, and attract the type of person that probably shouldn't be in a vehicle that has a narrower margin of error.
    Each day, I commute about 45 minutes each way on state and federal highways and by far the single biggest group of reckless or neglegent drivers I see are in SUV's.
    That said, I abhor tha "lets-pass-a-law-itis" that infects our society.
     
  13. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Glockcrazy, use the "Testing" forum to experiment with posting replies - you'll find the "Quote" button in the reply page.

    As to the assault weapon/SUV conundrum, I think you have something here, Winstonsmith. Bear in mind that to most tree-huggers, a SUV is even more of an "assault weapon" than an AR-15 - assault weapon used against their beloved wilderness, that is. They equate the destruction it (allegedly) causes to the environment with the destruction (allegedly) caused by assault weapons. I don't think they differentiate much between them... and certainly, if I had to get hit by something, I'd rather be hit by a 5.56mm. bullet at 2,900 fps than a Ford Excursion at 60 mph!
     
  14. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    "single biggest group of reckless or negligent drivers I see are in SUV's."

    Now what I would really like to see is a study regarding the numbers of accidents and the types of vehicles... AND wiht the police reports stating the contributing causes of the accidents.
    SUV's do not CAUSE accidents. Drivers CAUSE accidents... I for one am sick of seeing drivers tapping into PDA's while talking on Cell Phones while trying to drive. I see this all the time... Drivers are more and more distracted all the time. Flagrant SUV/gadget owners that get distracted and cause accidents just like flagrant wussycar/gadget owning makeup applying nancies.

    SUV's are not the problem. SUV's have nothing to do with anything. The too much gas argument is muckymuck. Like you are going to dictate my fuel consumption? Please. name another vehicle that isn't a van (that get the same fuel mileage BTW) that can take my wife and 5 kids up into the mountains.
    Or is this a Haves vs the Have Nots sort of thing? Because I drive SUVs. Now I drive a much BIGGER SUV. I would have had an Excursion if I could have afforded it.... but I can't because I'm pretty much a Have Not. I only buy vehicles in cash because I refuse to finance something that A, loses value like sinking ship... and B, can get wrecked by some Starbucks sipping, cell phone gabbing, Chrysler Town and Country driving, soccer mom.

    Now what I would really like to see is a study regarding the numbers of accidents and the types of vehicles... AND with the police reports stating the contributing causes of the accidents.
    SUV's do not CAUSE accidents. Drivers CAUSE accidents... I for one am sick of seeing drivers tapping into PDA's while talking on Cell Phones while trying to drive. I see this all the time... Drivers are more and more distracted all the time. Flagrant SUV/gadget owners that get distracted and cause accidents just like flagrant wussycar/gadget owning makeup applying nancies.

    SUV's are not the problem. SUV's have nothing to do with anything. The too much gas argument is muckymuck. Like you are going to dictate my fuel consumption? Please. name another vehicle that isn't a van (that get the same fuel mileage BTW) that can take my wife and 5 kids up into the mountains.
    Or is this a Haves vs the Have Nots sort of thing? Because I drive SUVs. Now I drive a much BIGGER SUV. I would have had an Excursion if I could have afforded it.... but I can't because I'm pretty much a Have Not. I only buy vehicles in cash because I refuse to finance something that A, loses value like sinking ship... and B, can get wrecked by some Starbucks sipping, cell phone gabbing, Chrysler Town and Country driving, soccer mom.
    I once got into it with a coworker about SUV's when she accused me of being an ape for driving a jacked up SUV. Yeah, I have Cherokee with a lift. Big deal. I placed a bet that her Honda Accord had a bigger engine and she took it. A 2.5 4 banger is a lot smaller than an Accord V-6. She paid for my lunches for a week.


    [​IMG]

    You can't tell me what to drive. I'm an American, damnit. I make my own choices. If you think I'm socially irresponsible for driving an SUV an you are so socially aware - then you should be driving a Metro. But don't get in front of my because I'm tired of pulling those dang things out of my air filter.
     

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  15. BluesBear

    BluesBear member

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    I guess some of y'all would consider my Jeep Cherokee to be an SUV.

    One of the reasons I bought it was to be better able to get to out of the way places to shoot. It has real 4WD. My arthritis and lower back was making it more and more uncomfortable to drive my old Jeep Wrangler. The Cherokee also has more room for shooting buddies and extra ammo. It gets about 25mpg highway if I keep my foot out of it.

    Now if y'all are talking about YUVs (Yuppie Utopia Vehicles) or TBDs (Too Damn Big) then I agree with you. Watching these women out here trying to drive their Ford Excursions with a cell phone in one hand, caramel latte in the other and trying to shift gears while changing lanes every ¼ mile. It's no wonder they never use a turn signal, they can't reach the lever with their knees or elbows.

    As the frame around my license plate says,
    "It's a Jeep thing. You wouldn't understand."
     
  16. 0007

    0007 Member

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    I bought my first new vehicle in forty years when I knew I was moving to the Middle East. It was the heaviest mid-sized SUV made. Glad I had it when three of us were hit by a ten-ton rock hauler at a traffic light over here. I don't mind if you don't like'm, and I agree a lot of buyers don't "need" them for what they use them for; but that isn't a logical argument and I kinda hoped that most of us here try to stay away from liberal logic; i.e. "I don't think you need this so you shouldn't be allowed to own it"... :uhoh: :barf:
     
  17. CatsDieNow

    CatsDieNow Member

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    I only hate SUVs when they are right in front of me. This is mainly due to the fact that I drive a Camaro and can't see through or around them. Of course, I also dislike trucks and semis too. It's getting to the point where I can see under them better.

    Back home in Indiana, it was kind of funny to watch the SUV drivers pass me like a maniac in the winter and then end up in the ditch because they thought that their all-wheel drive would help them stop on the ice. Pulled more than one soccer mom out with the truck.
     
  18. Lightsped

    Lightsped Member

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    I hate SUVs. They are slow, bulky, suck gas, and have a image problem. Many of them are top heavy resulting in a high turnover rate during accidents too. SUVs are nothing more than glorified station wagons.

    The thing I hate worst about them, is every Joe Blow and every Soccor Mom seems to have one. I prefer to be different and drive something that handles well and will get up and go when the acclerator is pushed.
     
  19. Bullet Bob

    Bullet Bob Member

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    My biggest dislike is that many SUV drivers have more vehicle than ability; if you buy a 500 S&W and can't handle the recoil, you've only wasted your own money. If you can't stay between the lines in a curve, or park, and don't know where the corners of your vehicle are, you're endangering everyone around you.
     
  20. MAURICE

    MAURICE Member

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    I used to despise SUVs, especially Suburbans. (I still dont like the H2 just because they are fugly :p )...But a friend of mine has one, and when we go out and about it is in his Sub. Its comfortable, has a powerful engine, and I feel like we could survive a major wreck- not just survive, but walk away.

    I used to say "Why do people need those?" "Who would want one?" Then I realized my own hypocrisy- Do I need all my guns? In reality, probably not. One or two would do most of the work I need to do with them.Just like my 97 Plymouth Breeze gets me from A to B- I do not need a big gas guzzling SUV. Why would I want one? They are loud and expensive- like some SUVs...Its not about needs, its about cans . I can own guns, its my right. Just like driving an SUV.
     
  21. HankB

    HankB Member

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    I think this is a cogent observation. With the addendum that they rationalize their view by appearing to embrace some bogus notion of "social responsibility" or "environmentalism." So they can pretend there's some uplifting, noble reason for their hatred.

    I don't like guns - so nobody else should have one, either. They kill people.

    I live in a small apartment - so other people shouldn't live in a large house. McMansions waste resources.

    I have to wear cheap clothing - so other people shouldn't wear leather or fur.A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy.

    I think deer are pretty, and Bambi is my favorite move - so other people shouldn't hunt. Animals are people, too.

    I drive an itty bitty car built on a unibody that, in a collision, will show all the structural integrity of an empty pop can - so other people shouldn't drive SUVs.They use too much gas and are dangerous.

    I own guns, have a nice house, wear decent clothes, enjoy hunting, and drive an SUV, so I guess I've given a certain class of people plenty of reason to hate me. :D

    And as far as SUV owners being poor drivers . . . that's probably true in some cases, as it is with ALL types of vehicle. But I'd wager some serious money that my SUV driving record is as good as any and better than most of the driving records of econobox owners. :p
    :D:D :D :D
     
  22. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    I would imagine that SUV drivers cause a plurality of accidents -- they are the most popular type of vehicle on the road today.

    Many of them, though, are "Mini-utes" like the Honda CRV, Toyota Rav4, Mazda Tribute (mine), etc.

    These are built on modern car chassis with car engines and get modern car gas mileage.

    Contrast that with the aging VW microbuses, Volvos and old American monstrosities that many tree-huggers drive. I'm willing to bet that my gas mileage is as good or better, and that I'm spewing less than a tenth of the pollution.

    These mini-SUVs also hold a heck of a lot more stuff. All right, so I have a wife, two kids and a house in the suburbs, but please -- please! - don't make me get a minivan!

    These little brutes also allow drivers like me to see the road a little better than in Dad's station wagon.

    And I need that height -- the road is filled with those darn SUVs! :)
     
  23. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    I'm not an SUV kinda guy. We've owned two... a 91 S10 Blazer Tahoe and a 96 4 Runner and neither was 4WD. The Toyota (with the I4) averaged about 28 MPG driving from Chicago (where I bought it) to Indy. I don't complain about the fuel economy of SUVs... If you can afford the SUV (or pickup) and can afford the gas, knock yourself out.

    I sometimes like to drive agressively on back country roads and I like cars that are reasonably nimble in the handling department. My last three daily drivers have been a 98 Ford SVT Contour, an 88 BMW 535is and a 99 Honda Civic Si. All are adequately fast, very nimble and generally fun to drive. And get decent mileage (over 25MPG) if you lighten your right foot a bit.

    The Excursion is just about the current definition of excess, not so much the initial cost, but the fact that it can seat eight people and I don't think I've ever seen one with more than two people in it.

    The 4WD capabilities also get a lot of people into trouble. It would take more fingers than I currently have to count the number of people I've heard first hand say that you can't get stuck with a 4WD vehicle and that you can take turns faster in 4WDs than in 2WDs... These people tend to have zero concept of what driving on ice requires. It may just be my limited experience, or just the fact that I generally don't appreciate the manliness of an SUV over than of a minivan, but it seems that on any given daily drive December through February, there are as many SUVs off the road as so called 'impossible to drive on ice' RWD GMs and Fords. There are many reasons for this and it would be remiss to group all SUV owners in this group, but it is my gut reaction.

    Honestly, I can admit that I just don't like them. I'm comfortable with my masculinity, I don't like to use more than 20 MPG, I don't haul or tow things very often, I very rarely have a need to have more than five people in my car... and most importantly, I like agressively handling cars... so large SUVs just don't make sense to me. But I don't knock SUV owners any more than I knock folks that carry 44 Magnums 357 SIGs or 45GAPs... I don't see the point, but they do the job.

    :p

    I do think it's funny that more ardent anti-SUV folks seem to think that no SUVs get more than about 15 MPG... Granted, Excursions, Expetitions, Navigators, Suburbans etc are going to be a bit harsh, but there are several SUVs that get respectable fuel economy but like anything else, folks that know a little about a lot of things are rarely the folks that are insulting everyone else over their choices. ;)
     
  24. bigjim

    bigjim Member

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    There is a bubble in SUV accidents numbers in exactly the same proportions
    as the bubble in Glock 40 KBs.

    I know this is true, because I got it from the HCI/PETA website.
     
  25. Smoke

    Smoke Member

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    THe media recently got into the argument that SUV's were not safe in accidents. They took the angle that a person in the other car were much more likely to be killed. The person in the SUV however was a non-issue.

    Who is going to win a battle the lady in the Excursion with half her sons baseball team or the lady in the Honda Civic? Which vehicle can you see better from. A higher stance off the road allows you to see over many other vehicle and see obstacles and accidents sooner allowing more reaction time.

    SUV's are safer. If I'm willing to pay the fuel bill to allow a little extra safety for those I care about, that is my perogative.

    No vehicle is safe if you aren't paying attention or driving stupidly. Handling a car requires the same attention to safety as handling a gun.

    Smoke - drive what you like
     
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