Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by grter, Nov 4, 2020.
Some low end AR parts which may bend being counterfeit or just low end. Its not profitable for someone to CNC something unless they can sell a lot of them. Setting up to make fake Lugers for instance would likely end up with you needing more back per pistol than an original would be.
to tell real from fake. Modern day examples of such include plenty of guns that have had stamps or cartouches added to make it more special than it really is. I had a Walther PP which I liked but my dive into what I actually had took me to fakes and stamps where you could change things to make it whatever you wanted. I can’t imagine a reputable seller selling fakes, and I can’t imagine a counterfeiter being in business big enough to do much. I do have concern about some guns that have come to market recently, but thankfully they are more expensive than the real deal and have some obvious differences. Uberti Schofield being the example that comes to mind in the handgun game, and the Chiappa Burnside in the rifle category. Norinco made some good Winchester clones that could be dolled up to pass as a war gun, and lots of 1911s could have US Property stamps added, but all of those with exception of the Norinco would cost more to fake than the real deal.
Don't overlook the airsoft market as an emergency source for parts for real guns.
Let me give you an example. My favorite grip for AR builds has been something called a Stow Away II by a defunct outfit named Lone Star Ordnance. Gradually, even on ebay, the supply of these has dried up. But, at one point, Numrich (GPC) had hundreds of these, listed as "airsoft" parts. The only difference was that the "airsoft" version did not have the hole drilled for the selector detent spring. (A 5 minute job to drill the hole.) So I stocked up. This is yet another example of "arbitrage" -- buying low in one market and selling high in another.
Of course, by now, the airsoft versions have disappeared as well. But you get the idea.
Wherever people want guns, others will make them for sale.
Pakistan, Philippines, Africa, etc all have a homespun copys of others design, in their gun manufacturing culture.
Gun bans dont work
Uhhh...what do you think Rock Island Armory is?
It's amazing to think someone is copying a cheap watch, and doing it so badly.
Real one: Look at the numbers around the dial, very crisp and clearly done.
Fake. All three inner dials are just painted on. The number around the dial and the whole case is a sad copy of the real one. The back is a hunk of cast SS(?) and is crudely finished, unlike the real one that is nicely done. The non screw down stem wobbles like it's going to fall out, and even the band feels like junk, and it's not even attached very well on one side.
Compared to this watch, my fake AR sights are works of art.
I've also been shown a counterfeit Magpul AR grip that was so good it was hard to spot next to a genuine grip.
Counterfeit in the broader sense of 'knock-off' that claim to be 'same as' but marked with a different manufacturing name is far greater. They range in quality from better (rarely) to execrable. Parts, as opposed to complete arms, are similarly 'available'. Commonly items like this are not advertised as 'genuine [this or that]" but something like "Amazo" brand - which absolves the maker from copyright suits. As with arms, some are quite good and some are junk.
Any part replaced by the user that isn't a part made or certified by the original manufacturer might be considered "counterfeit", so the concept of counterfeit parts in a firearm is kind of a "what-if" exercise anyway.
Actually Armscor was was setup by Colt after the end of WWII using original Colt equipment as part of the rebuilding process to get the Philippines back on their feet. Yes it is a clone but I don't know if I would call it a counterfeit.
A Norico M1911 is a clone of a Colt Government Model, not a counterfeit.
The use of the term "counterfeit" in the sense of "a close, or almost exact copy, but clearly marked as to the origin" is improper.
And just a note- The whole point of patents is that when the patent expires the invention is free to be used by anyone. So, when a patent expires, it is "open season for copying that firearm". If you don't what the shape or appearance to be copied, trademark it, or apply for a design patent, e.g., the Coca-Cola bottle.
An arms company based in the Philippines that takes advantage of competitive labor rates to turn out steel-based firearms, many of which resemble those of old and renown. They do not put spurious or inaccurate markings on their firearms.
When Taurs bought all of S&W's manual machines after S&W went NC & CNC, they turned out the revolvers that those machines were set up to produce. They changes the roll stamping, but, they were identical, other than being made in Brazil.
I often wonder about non complex parts that are relatively easy to copy and manufacture. There are factories that will make whatever a client wants. Depending on how much money the client wants to spend will determine the quality and control measures put into it. In fact I have heard of knife manufactures using these type of companies after exhausting all efforts to convince US companies to tool up for their new design. These factories are very well equipped and able to tool up for a wide variety things apparently more so than in the US and likely by a wide margin. Due to labor costs and shady US policy makers allowing it the price is almost always less than local manufacturing.
I wonder if the IRS has any way to force these foreign companies to show them their books but that is another subject.
I can envision a shady client having simple parts cloned in these factories for lower prices than the true manufacturer. Yes these parts can be just as good or better but I can also envision a problem arising when this client also happens to be a super cheapskate who demands that the items be made with the least expensive materials labor, and quality control. At the end of the road this can become a headache for the individual that pays full price for sub par parts that fail.
Of course this is all in my head but I find it a likely possibility. Maybe someone who knows can set me straight.
"Counterfeit" might also meet the same criteria.
Well, then again, it might just as likely mean an "imperfect copy". With a known clone you know what you're getting, with a counterfeit you don't, that's implicit in the definition.
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