Under President Trump's Executive Order on the Second Amendment, DOJ/ATF recently repealed Biden's anti-2A policies and pistol brace Rule is under review to fulfill President's Executive Order - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pistol-braces-still-for-sale.928495/post-13115419I saw the atf did a thing on social media about their zero tolerance stuff.
UPDATE: DOJ drops SBR charge for braced CZ Scorpion pistol after GOA/FRAC joint letter - https://armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=70249.msg1472148#msg1472148Under President Trump's Executive Order on the Second Amendment, DOJ/ATF recently repealed Biden's anti-2A policies and pistol brace Rule is under review to fulfill President's Executive Order - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pistol-braces-still-for-sale.928495/post-13115419
"DOJ and ATF have plans to revisit the regulatory framework surrounding stabilizing braces (Final Rule 2021R-08F) ... The decision to review the Stabilizing Brace rule, which sought to reclassify certain firearms as short-barreled rifles ... reiterates constitutional approaches to firearlm regulations"
We are currently under judge O'Connor's final ruling which struck down pistol brace Rule in its entirety nationwide - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/are-pistol-braces-legal-in-2025.939375/post-13117281what is the simple answer
So, April 14th was a few days ago. Where are we now?"IT IS ORDERED that Appellants’ unopposed motion to stay is GRANTED as stated herein. This appeal is ABEYED until April 14, 2025, at which point the abeyance shall automatically dissolve. Appellants are permitted to file a status report as stated in their motion."
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, just a random layperson posting on THR.So, April 14th was a few days ago. Where are we now?
The stay refers to the district court's determination that the rule is invalid, so the brace rule may still be enforced.
I still have not read/heard a solid answer yet. I have a brace and been waiting for a year before I start building a pistol.So what is the simple answer
Yes they are legal
Or
No they are not legal
Thanks for pointing that out as recently charged by DOJ Biden-carryover staff designating braced CZ Scorpion pistol as SBR, which fortunately was dropped by Trump appointed DOJ staff.the brace rule may still be enforced.
District court ruling vacated the entire pistol brace Rule nationwide and likely Trump appointed DOJ and ATF Chief Counsel along with Pam Bondi's 2A Task Force will work to fulfill Executive Order on Second Amendment so things are looking good for us.I still have not read/heard a solid answer yet. I have a brace and been waiting for a year before I start building a pistol.
Lets hope so.Thanks for pointing that out as recently charged by DOJ Biden-carryover staff designating braced CZ Scorpion pistol as SBR, which fortunately was dropped by Trump appointed DOJ staff.
District court ruling vacated the entire pistol brace Rule nationwide and likely Trump appointed DOJ/ATF Chief Counsel and Pam Bondi's 2A Task Force will work to fulfill Executive Order on Second Amendment so things are looking good for us. Since this is "Legal", our hopes and dreams are not the focus and actual court rulings matter, all the way to the Supreme Court unless something happens before that.
Of course.Lets hope so.
I do have a question Tho. Is it legal to have a SBA3 brace on a completed lower but no upper? I have no pistol uppers kicking around. Just this lower and about 7 stripped lowers.
Your "reference" is to a June, 2024 news item. A few things have happened since then, which you would realize if you had read post #8.Pistol braces are legal at the federal level. (as of 2024) The ATF’s 2023 rule was struck down by federal courts, and the rule is no longer in effect. However, legal challenges are ongoing, so the situation could change.
Link removed by Spats McGee
ATF thinks different, IF you read this. IT sums it up as "rifle first, rifle forever, pistol first, you can switch back and forth."Of course.
An arm brace by itself was never regulated.
An arm brace on a lower or other receiver was never regulated.
An arm brace attached to a rifle was never regulated.
The gray area was whether attaching an arm brace to a pistol constituted the making of a short barreled rifle. The idea being it wasn't really an arm brace but a wink wink shoulder stock.
And again, there is no such animal as a "pistol lower" or "pistol upper". Only uppers and lowers. It is possible to assemble a pistol with an upper receiver with a barrel of any length.
No, they don't.ATF thinks different,
I'm fully aware of ATF Ruling 2011-4, having posted links to it dozens of times here on THR.IF you read this. IT sums it up as "rifle first, rifle forever, pistol first, you can switch back and forth."
A frame, receiver or lower is an "Other Firearm" on the Form 4473 because it isn't a rifle or handgun until assembled as such.That's why I always make sure when I do the NICS, it shows up as "other"
No, they don't.
I'm fully aware of ATF Ruling 2011-4, having posted links to it dozens of times here on THR.
It has nothing to do with my response above.
"First a rifle, always a rifle" has nothing to do with "pistol lower" or "rifle lower".
Years ago, some companies would sell an AR lower marked PISTOL as if that had any meaning. It didn't and one could make that into a rifle. But due to 201104, you couldn't subsequently reassemble into a pistol. So the PISTOL engraving was irrelevant.
A frame, receiver or lower is an "Other Firearm" on the Form 4473 because it isn't a rifle or handgun until assembled as such.
It could be a complete lower with shoulder stock and yet......its still a lower and could lawfully be assembled into a pistol by first removing that shoulder stock.
No, they don't.
I'm fully aware of ATF Ruling 2011-4, having posted links to it dozens of times here on THR.
It has nothing to do with my response above.
"First a rifle, always a rifle" has nothing to do with "pistol lower" or "rifle lower".
Years ago, some companies would sell an AR lower marked PISTOL as if that had any meaning. It didn't and one could make that into a rifle. But due to 201104, you couldn't subsequently reassemble into a pistol. So the PISTOL engraving was irrelevant.
A frame, receiver or lower is an "Other Firearm" on the Form 4473 because it isn't a rifle or handgun until assembled as such.
It could be a complete lower with shoulder stock and yet......its still a lower and could lawfully be assembled into a pistol by first removing that shoulder stock.
And reminder from "Legal" subcategory banner - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?forums/legal.4/Since this is "Legal" and not "General Gun Discussions", our hopes and dreams are not the focus and actual court rulings matter, all the way to the Supreme Court unless something happens before that.
Anymore speculations/comments/opinions not directly pointed to court case filings should be expressed in "General Gun Discussions" as that is the subcategory for opinions and comments. (Nod to @Frank Ettin)![]()
No, you can't.You can still do a 4473 as a pistol with a striped lower.
No.So wouldn't that make it legally a "pistol" lower?
Any dealer who receives that stripped lower would record it in his bound book as exactly as I describe above:Or if I bought this ar15 pistol from PSA (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...ide-classic-pistol-w-har-15-pistol-brace.html), and I took all the parts off until it was a striped receiver. Wouldn't that make it technically "pistol lower" as I bought it was a legit pistol.
That is the point I was trying to say. You can still have a "pistol lower"
No, you can't.
A stripped lower does not meet the definition of "pistol" in ATF regulations. Any dealer that ignores the clear instructions on the Form 4473 runs the risk of losing his FFL.
Question 24. Category of Firearm(s): “Other” refers to frames, receivers, and
other firearms that are neither handguns nor long guns (rifles or shotguns), such as
firearms having a pistol grip that expel a shotgun shell, or National Firearms Act
(NFA) firearms, including silencers. If a frame or receiver can only be made into a
long gun (rifle or shotgun), it is still a frame or receiver, not a handgun or long gun.
All frames and receivers are “firearms” by definition, and subject to the same GCA
limitations. See 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3)(B). 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1) makes it unlawful
for a licensee to sell any firearm other than a shotgun or rifle to any person under the
age of 21. Since a frame or receiver for a firearm, to include one that can only be
made into a long gun, is a “firearm other than a shotgun or rifle,” it cannot be transferred
to anyone under the age of 21, nor can these firearms be transferred to anyone
who is not a resident of the State where the transfer is to take place. Also, note that
multiple sales forms are not required for frames or receivers of any firearms, or pistol
grip shotguns, since they are not “pistols or revolvers” under 18 U.S.C.§ 923(g)(3)(A).
No.
If you have this
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It's recorded in Section A of the form 4473 as "Receiver" and on Question 24 as "Other firearm"......exactly as described in the instructions.
Any dealer who receives that stripped lower would record it in his bound book as exactly as I describe above:
Section A as a "Receiver"
Question 24 as "Other firearm"
It would be the same whether it was a used Remington 700 receiver or even a barreled Rem 700 receiver........if it doesn't have a shoulder stock it is not a rifle.
Completely separate is the legality of assembling a firearm from a receiver that was originally a rifle or pistol. Thats where ATF Ruling 2011-4 applies.
If you disassembled an AR15 rifle, sold the stripped receiver to someone in another state, the receiving dealer in that state would record that lower as "receiver" in his bound book and as "receiver" and "Other firearm" on the Form 4473. Not as "rifle receiver" because there is no such definition in federal law or ATF regs.
For sure, the buyer of your stripped lower could only assemble that lower into a rifle....because of Ruling 2011-4.
If you disassembled an AR15 pistol, sold the stripped receiver to someone in another state, the receiving dealer in that state would record that lower as "receiver" in his bound book and as "receiver" and "Other firearm" on the Form 4473. Not as "pistol receiver" because there is no such definition in federal law or ATF regs.
You buyer could lawfully assemble that lower into either a pistol or rifle...because of Ruling 2011-4.
When I received my FFL in 2008, this was a question I asked my IOI: "How do I know what that used AR lower was before I got it?" He said "Record the firearm type in front of you, just like the regs describe."
Of course I did.Did you see the link I sent? Its not a stripped lower, Its a complete firearm, NOT A STRIPPED RECEIVER. So wouldn't the 4473 be a "pistol"?
Crossbreed Holsters might just be the last place one should look to for federal firearms definitions.Least according to this article.
A stripped lower does not meet the definition of "pistol" or "rifle", but it does meet the definition of "firearm".Pistol.
A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having
(a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and
(b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).
Firearm.
Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics. The term shall include a weapon parts kit that is designed to or may readily be completed, assembled, restored, or otherwise converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive. The term shall not include a weapon, including a weapon parts kit, in which the frame or receiver of such weapon is destroyed as described in the definition “frame or receiver”.
Of course you can, for all the reason already given above.So is it legal or not as of today 2025?
That is all I wanted to know
Palmettostatearmory.com has pistols with braces for sale.
Can I buy one from them?