Are revolvers obsolete for police work?

[GunnyUSMC]

What's your beef with me man? Why do you want to nit pick my statements here?




How is that a requirement? I never said "required" "must" "or need". I just offered a solution. I'm sorry you read into that I was requiring you to have 50 rounds.

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I love it when someone has solutions to something that have never done and know little about.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Police around the world use submachine guns on patrol every day. They don't have all the problems you describe. These are in Sweden.

Yeah, but the majority of police in the U.S. are in single-officer squad car patrols. It's easier to do foot patrol with a slung submachine gun than it is to maneuver one in and out of a squad car every time you respond to a call, plus you would have observers freaking out that the cops are pulling out machine guns every time they get in and out of their car... which is to say, literally every time they respond to a call.

On the other hand, I did see a picture of a German squad car that had a really sweet rapid-access door mount for an MP5.

There are lots of slings that work for shoulder carry, chest carry, back carry, etc. Where do you think this guy drew his Uzi from?

View attachment 826168

Same place he drew his mustache and epic three-piece suit from, probably.

But joking aside, and while expressing legitimate respect for the police, many would admit themselves that vast numbers of police are so insufficiently proficient with their firearms that they really ought not be armed at all.

That's a popular view in these parts, but strangely it always seems to be supported by a combination of anecdotes, disrespect for police, and snobbishness about the amount of shooting that the people here, who are largely aficionados, do - not by any empirical data that could be broadly applied to the nearly one million cops in the U.S.

 

[Choctaw]

I was a volunteer fireman, so it's a hard thing to express respect for professional donut gourmands.

But joking aside, and while expressing legitimate respect for the police, many would admit themselves that vast numbers of police are so insufficiently proficient with their firearms that they really ought not be armed at all. Recognizing that fact, 15 plus rounds of lower recoil 9mm in a lower cost, very heavy triggered D/A semi-auto almost certainly represents the best cost-effective approach from a utilitarian perspective. So, as someone rather early on in the thread rather eloquently noted, revolvers are bureaucratically obsolete for the police rank and file.

I would much rather fight with my brothers and sisters in blue than a range ninja any day of the week. There is a vast difference in plinking at targets (I don't care if you compete at the national level or not) and engaging in a gunfight. Unless you have been there and done that you can't possibly understand what I'm talking about.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

What's your beef with me man?

Well, you've decided to make a stand on a horrible and ignorant position founded on a complete and total lack of any knowledge in regards to the demands or realities of the job, and I've decided I won't let such tripe stand unchallenged in case someone else comes by and unknowingly falls for it. If you decide to air a horribly supported and flawed opinion in public (then refuse to back down from it over and over again), be prepared to have it destroyed by people that actually know what they are talking about.

How is that a requirement? I never said "required" "must" "or need".

Do you know what the phrase "Bottom Line" means? It means something that is of primary importance, essential or salient. If you say Bottom Line, 50 round magazines, you are making a requirement for 50 round magazines. That isn't nitpicking, that's understanding the words you are using.

With a 6.5 or 8 inch barrel, the effectiveness of 9mm is meaningfully improved over a 4.5 inch pistol.

The velocity is meaningfully improved. If that translates to effectiveness for the application is a completely different debate than the one happening here.

Or I can keep trolling.

Well, at least you've admitted what you are doing.

 

[GEM]

FYI on comparative revolver vs. pistol data from ATF for 2017. Does the market place give validity to your opinion?
https://www.atf.gov/file/133476/download

TO .380 848,425 TO .38 SPEC 177,956 TO .357 MAG 134,053
TO 9MM 1,756,618

 

[BSA1]

There are lots of slings that work for shoulder carry, chest carry, back carry, etc. Where do you think this guy drew his Uzi from?

View attachment 826168

From a briefcase.

This is a edited picture of when President Reagan was shot. In a unedited photograph I saw there was a open briefcase sitting on the ground in front of the agent. You can clearly see the cut-out foam in the case for the Uzi and a magazine.

You really need to stop trolling.

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

In a unedited photograph I saw there was a open briefcase sitting on the ground in front of the agent.

Here you go. The case is laying in the street.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Just once I would like to see a thread on the police that didn't devolve into a "us versus the uninformed citizen" argument. Law enforcement is far and away not the only occupation the people have "opinions" of what the job entails and the perfect willingness to express those opinions despite the fact they have idea none what the demands are.

Case in point – the "fifty round magazine" bottom line. This is absurd on its face but there are three options as to handling it…
1.) You can give it the recognition it deserves and ignore it
2.) You can attempt to educate the person.
3.) You can get angrily condescending.

One and two gives the casual bystander the idea that there is an adult in the conversation. Three makes them wonder if either party is mature enough to have a firearm on their person. Quite frankly Sister Beatrice would have all of you standing at the chalkboard with your nose in a drawn circle until you learned to behave yourself.

So just as a reminder, the question on the table is whether a revolver still has a place in police work. My take on the subject is simply that if the man in uniform has the ability to do the job required in adverse circumstance with revolver then yes. If the limitations of the platform go beyond his skill set then no.

 

[Speedo66]

I found it hilarious that someone here posted a screen shot of Swedish police carrying sub guns like it was the norm.
Ever been there? I have, maybe 6 times in the last ten years because of visits to relatives, both in Stockholm and a small town in the south.

First, that is a very unusual scene, definitely NOT the norm, they general carry just a sidearm.

Second, Sweden has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, so I can only suspect that was a special occasion.

Third, they are probably one of the best trained police forces on the face of the earth. Their academy is two years long, as opposed to the normal four or six months here.
Posting that picture was like comparing grapes and watermelons.

As to the OP question, like any job, you always do better with the correct or better tool for the job. As a former LEO, I would consider the semi auto the better tool, thus obsoleting the revolver. Not to say they won’t work, but why not use the better tool?

Points that lead me to that conclusion are increased capacity, ease of reloading, and better fixed sights.
I was thrilled to replace my 5 shot Chief with an 11 shot G26.

Re: emulating the FBI, many small depts. don’t have the funds for their own R&D section, so they follow the agency that has the best regarded one.

My smaller agency in NYC, 3500 officers, follows the lead of the NYPD, 30,000 officers. We went straight to 9mm Glocks from .38Spl. revolvers.

 

[labnoti]

Here you go. The case is laying in the street.

Sweet, so just as I suspected, there are so many different ways that really do make carrying a submachine gun practical. I guess as long as the experts insist that it won't work for police work, I'll have to defer to them. But for the OP, I think we can say for sure it is a better option than a 686+ with 3 speedloaders. I mean, when we take all the commentary from the experts in this thread, it should be pretty clear that combination is untenable in the present age. I'll reiterate what someone else wrote, "If you knew you were going into a gunfight..." and your adversary could have a Glock 17, and there could be multiple adversaries. Remember that news article where the self-defender shot 5 home-invaders? I guess I'm off-topic now, so I'll have to start my own thread, "Should you trade your IWB gat for a buzz gun?"

 

[ClickClickD'oh]

Sweet, so just as I suspected, there are so many different ways that really do make carrying a submachine gun practical.

Yes, patrol officers should be carrying SMGs in brief cases... that's brilliant. Why haven't police agencies thought of that before? I mean, never mind the fact that you carry a SMG in a brief case as a means of deception which would be completely and totally pointless if every officer were carry a matching briefcase and everyone in their right mind knew there was a gun in it. Then we are right back to the problem of what to do with the briefcase when not being held in the hand. Oh, I know, maybe briefcase slings!

Please go away.

 

[Odd Job]

This thread is going off like a frog in a sock.
Let's stop here.