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Are there any musicians that have this problem?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by SodaPop, Apr 24, 2003.

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  1. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    I've been putting more time in with my handguns this year than I ever have done before. Lately, I've been going to IDPA matches and speeding up the pace at the range, and I've been doing something consistantly that isn't good.

    Background:

    I've been playing bass guitar for about 14yrs now. I don't play with a pick, I just use my fingers. I'm in the Geddy Lee, Les Claypool, Steve Harris style of playing.

    Problem:

    I can pull the trigger on my Beretta 92FS and Colt 1991A1 faster than the gun can cycle. :uhoh: I pull the trigger, then the gun goes bang, then I pull the trigger again and nothing happens. I look at the gun and the hammer is cocked. Then I pull the trigger again and it goes "bang." I've learned that I can't shoot as fast as I want to.

    Is this disease called "wanna be rock-star gunitis?"

    Maybe I should listen to different music?
     
  2. surfinUSA

    surfinUSA Member

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    Good for you. I've never seen anybody that could pull the trigger faster than the gun could shoot. How accurate are you shooting at that speed?
     
  3. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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    Are you trying to defend yourself against marauding Riffs??? :D
     
  4. Ewok_Guy

    Ewok_Guy Member

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    Just chill out on the caffeine, Sodapop. Learn to take it one round at a time. :)
     
  5. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    Well...... I hit with the first round and then nothing happens on the second. If I spend enought time at the range things tend to happen instinctively and I don't focus on the sights as much. I'm not really hitting multiple targets faster, just pulling the trigger faster.

    When I do pull the trigger too fast its the equivalent of a jam. I always think the gun jammed and I have to stop and look at it. If I load up 16rds in my Beretta, and practice doing double taps, I've been causing malfuctions about half way threw the mag.

    I also had to put a larger grip safety on my 1911. I had the tendency to relax my right had too much and make my hand kind of arch and not push in the grip safety. If you played bass with your fingers and then pick up a 1911 you'll understand what I'm saying.

    Like I said before, I'm not actually shooting faster. I'm messing things up on the second tap.:rolleyes:
     
  6. gbelleh

    gbelleh Member

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    I'm a musician, but my instrument doesn't require quite the manual dexterity of the guitar. I'm not sure that I've experienced this problem, but I know that the fastest gun I've ever shot is the H&K P7M8. I can make that gun sound like it's on full auto.

    Have you tried rapid fire with a P7?
     
  7. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    double post

    how ironic:rolleyes:
     
  8. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    Has anyone ever played "Flight of the bumblebee" on a 1911? Since some guns have a slower rates of fire its more likely to happen with slower cyclical rates.
     
  9. blades67

    blades67 Member

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    I haven't met anyone that could pull the trigger of their gun faster than the gun could cycle (using a stock gun), but I have met a number of folks that get in a hurry and short-stroke the trigger and believe that they did. It's very easy to do with a DA/SA gun like the Beretta 92. If you're really pulling the trigger faster than the gun can cycle, don't stop at the second trigger pull, just keep going and the gun will fire with the third pull.:scrutiny:
     
  10. Mal H

    Mal H Administrator

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    Yeah, a 1911 Chickering, but that's another story.

    I'm not surprised you can beat the trigger of almost any automatic. When you get down to it, they really aren't that fast when compared to what a well practiced musician can do.
     
  11. dev_null

    dev_null Member

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    You obviously need an MP5K! :D

    -0-
     
  12. stretcharmstrong

    stretcharmstrong Member

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    Sounds to me like you're nailing the lick, but just need to cut the metronome down a notch. More of an andante than molto allegro. Stop playing around with the needle set at 300 like Charlie Parker and your gig will come together. :D
     
  13. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    Yeah, light loads and the heaviest recoil spring that remains reliable and I can shoot pretty fast. If you want fun, try a copmed 38 Super or 9x23 sometime. Like I said, light loads and heavy recoil springs. Do that for a while and get fast with it and I swear, a 230 Gr 45ACP seems like the while slide operates in s l o w m o t i o n.
     
  14. makdaddy03

    makdaddy03 member

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    I play the Acoustic guitar and I have no idea what we're talking about.:evil:
     
  15. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn Member

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    You probably didn't allow the trigger to reset.
     
  16. BigG

    BigG Member

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    Are you releasing the trigger enough for it to reset before your next pull?
     
  17. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    I was waiting for someone to ask that.

    I'll admit to doing that before, but I'm not doing that now. I absolutely am not doing that with my Colt. I can hear/feel the slide close AFTER I pull the trigger. My Beretta is about due for a recoil spring change. I am at about 5000rds with it.

    What is the rate of fire for a Beretta and 1911?

    I should be able to translate that into rate of fire/ beats per minute.

    I think bass players, and piano players, may be more inclined to do something like this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2003
  18. New_comer

    New_comer Member

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    That happened to me, too. A couple of times or so already, particularly when I was beginning to involve myself in the shooting sport... :(

    Found out that I didn't release the trigger enough to reset it, which for the USP means about an extra eighth of an inch or so of forward trigger travel, more than I would have preferred, which considerably prolongs my double tap split. I think it also happens if I let the gun flop around too much at recoil, misleading my "trigger muscle's" memory into believing I've let go just enough...

    I would like to believe I've trained myself enough not to be prone to such 'operator' error anymore, but I won't be surprised if I get to do it again...

    I'd then do what blades said: release and pull again. ;)
     
  19. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I think I saw Bob Munden comment on the same problem on American Shooter...

    -z
     
  20. Handy

    Handy Guest

    Sodapop,

    A Beretta 93R cycles at something greater than 1000 rounds per minute. That's close to 17 rounds a second, or 1/17 of a second per cycle.

    I can believe that your fingers are moving that fast, but since the Beretta has at least a little muzzle flip, wouldn't that second shot be going a little high, if it did fire? Even if the gun could keep up, I would think you'd be putting bullets in the ceiling.
     
  21. Ledbetter

    Ledbetter Member

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    "Flight of the Bumblebee" on a 1911 Chickering.

    That's the funniest thing I've ever read here. Is it posasible that the Great American Novel was written on a 1911 Remington Rand?
     
  22. Hemicuda

    Hemicuda member

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    Electric and acoustic bass player here...

    I have been playing fretted and fretalee bass all my life (mom is a musician in her spare time)

    I have never had this problem, but then again, I don't shoot to "music" either aloud or in my head... I keep the 2 seperate...

    I think if I WERE having this problem, I'd just slow down the beat a bit, and ive it another go...
     
  23. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    The second round never happens. I might have to video tape myself and then have an instant replay to evaluate it.:)

    I'm positive I'm resetting the trigger on the Colt. I'll honestly say.... maybe I'm not resetting the trigger on the Beretta all the time, but I know I've beaten the trigger a couple times. I'm sure the its time to put a new spring in. It should speed up the cycle rate considerable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2003
  24. Handy

    Handy Guest

    Yeah, I just meant that it was just as well you couldn't fire, the muzzle was not likely to be on target.
     
  25. valnar

    valnar Member

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    I just think its cool somebody still listens to Rush and Maiden. Look what the kids today have to grow up with. :rolleyes:

    -Robert
     
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