I know it's being done to combat the insurgency here in Iraq, but it seems to me like we're setting a dangerous precedent. Local civilians here (at least in Baghdad) are restricted to one AK47 w/ 2 mags per house. No other firearms of any kind or additional mags are allowed. And if the local decides to dispute the confiscation when we search their house (we do many random searches), they are detained. Are we headed down the wrong path here or is this an issolated event that will have no effect on the preservation of our 2A rights?
Are We Setting A Dangerous Precedent Here?
- Thread starter Hux
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xd9fan
Member
wow just wow
Given world history, what do you think?
Would we as U.S. citizens put up with this crap? We already put up with to much crap like this here at home, and its not from a foreign country's military.
wow
Did the Bush administration even just show them OUR Bill of Rights? Wont doubt it if they did not.
Bush's talk about "speading democracy" makes me wonder what he is doing. I have heard alot of lip service on "freedom" even the word "liberty".......Is the Bush administration even educating the Iraq people on our Bill of Rights?? In the 3 years since we having been over there I have not heard one peep on printing mass copies of our Bill of Rights and even just showing it to "the people"
I think the public here at home implies that he is spreading our Individual liberty-based system....with a Bill ofRights.
I wonder if its just Govt-based democracy (were Rights come from Govt). That he is "spreading"
Your post, if its true would fall in line with this thinking.
(Even if Bush was showing them the Bof R and had mass education on it.......is this what we as a nation want to be doing....world cop and world educator??)
wow do the Swiss have it right....
Given world history, what do you think?
Would we as U.S. citizens put up with this crap? We already put up with to much crap like this here at home, and its not from a foreign country's military.
wow
Did the Bush administration even just show them OUR Bill of Rights? Wont doubt it if they did not.
Bush's talk about "speading democracy" makes me wonder what he is doing. I have heard alot of lip service on "freedom" even the word "liberty".......Is the Bush administration even educating the Iraq people on our Bill of Rights?? In the 3 years since we having been over there I have not heard one peep on printing mass copies of our Bill of Rights and even just showing it to "the people"
I think the public here at home implies that he is spreading our Individual liberty-based system....with a Bill ofRights.
I wonder if its just Govt-based democracy (were Rights come from Govt). That he is "spreading"
Your post, if its true would fall in line with this thinking.
(Even if Bush was showing them the Bof R and had mass education on it.......is this what we as a nation want to be doing....world cop and world educator??)
wow do the Swiss have it right....
crazed_ss
Member
Iraq is a "unique" situation dont you think?
I think it's a great idea.
If they were allowed to have unlimited guns, they could simply have an armory full of AK-47's in one house. The insurgents wouldnt even have to worry about hiding their caches of arms.
Maybe after this "war" is resolved, they'll let Iraqis have as many guns as they want, but right now we need to deny the enemy easy access and storage of weapons while also allowing normal Iraqis some form of self defense.
At least they can have one AK a two mags. I cant have any AK's
I think it's a great idea.
If they were allowed to have unlimited guns, they could simply have an armory full of AK-47's in one house. The insurgents wouldnt even have to worry about hiding their caches of arms.
Maybe after this "war" is resolved, they'll let Iraqis have as many guns as they want, but right now we need to deny the enemy easy access and storage of weapons while also allowing normal Iraqis some form of self defense.
At least they can have one AK a two mags. I cant have any AK's
Outlaws
Member
Two mags huh? Can they still have unlimited ammunition for those two mags or is 60 rounds all you get?
At least we are letting them have guns...and select fire to boot. Hopefully they get unrestricted access when we leave.
At least we are letting them have guns...and select fire to boot. Hopefully they get unrestricted access when we leave.
TallPine
Member
Um, yeah ...
(but of course it is un-patriotic to say so 
)Maybe you're just getting trained for operations after you get home
Waitone
Member
The US set the Iraqi govt up based on a european model.
redneck2
Member
Uhhhh....you forgot one small matter. Iraq isn't our country. They made up their own Constitution. Maybe they don't want our Bill of Rights. There are a lot of countries we deal with that don't have our form of government.
Fosbery
Member
Wow, your pretty screwed if you upgraded to the AKM
SoCalShooter
Member
2 mags? are those large banana clips or small ones are they drums?
It's a seperate country that we don't control or own. Our BOR does not apply there. While their constitution will probably be glaringly different than ours because of the Islam religion it's pretty silly to think that the rights you're accostumed to back home should be applied over there.
I can sympathize with their reaction. Those guns are their property and they probably had it long before the infidels showed up and started ruining their lives with their policing action. No one expects Iraq to be America 2.0 because it won't be, no one is that stupid. A Democracy is a Democracy, and at it's heart it has a constitution written by its people. Hell, Iraq could take our Constitution and write it bass akwards, just as long as the people voted for it.
I can sympathize with their reaction. Those guns are their property and they probably had it long before the infidels showed up and started ruining their lives with their policing action. No one expects Iraq to be America 2.0 because it won't be, no one is that stupid. A Democracy is a Democracy, and at it's heart it has a constitution written by its people. Hell, Iraq could take our Constitution and write it bass akwards, just as long as the people voted for it.
Otherguy Overby
member
Anti Gun
Don't forget that the US military is virulently anti gun. One could easily assume Sarah Brady was in charge of issuing weapons, magazines and ammunition.
Only those way out on the pointy end are allowed weapons with magazines and ammunition. Just imagine the arguments at top brass level about allowing "civilians" any guns at all.
Don't forget that the US military is virulently anti gun. One could easily assume Sarah Brady was in charge of issuing weapons, magazines and ammunition.
Only those way out on the pointy end are allowed weapons with magazines and ammunition. Just imagine the arguments at top brass level about allowing "civilians" any guns at all.
River Wraith
Member
you sure about that? I can't imagine the real US military attacking US citizens and taking their guns. I can see the national guard doing it. Then again, think of the Bonus army...
longeyes
member
It appears so. And the question--which should be asked publicly, if one could find a media type who cares--is why? I'd love to hear Bush shuffle around that one.
definetly a unique situation - what other army in the history of the world ever let the occupied country posses such firepower? It didn't happen in WWi or WWII thats for sure.
This is a unique situation because we are not fighting the Iraq army but terrorists and at the same time the sunni and shiite factions are having an uncivil-war (maybe kurds too)? Ther uncivil war is terrorism so the rules have to change.
I don't think this applies to homeland USA because it would have to be another coutries army making these demands on US citizens and that I don't foresee happening.
This is a unique situation because we are not fighting the Iraq army but terrorists and at the same time the sunni and shiite factions are having an uncivil-war (maybe kurds too)? Ther uncivil war is terrorism so the rules have to change.
I don't think this applies to homeland USA because it would have to be another coutries army making these demands on US citizens and that I don't foresee happening.
Aguila Blanca
Member
Correct.Waitone said:
The new Iraqi constitution (which I think the "allies" pretty much wrote and handed to them) does not include any RKBA provision. I was more than a little ... "upset" ... when I realized that.
That's where it gets interesting. Technically, we are no longer "occupiers," because (technically) we have formally handed over power to the newly-(re)constituted government of Iraq. At this point we are not (technically) "occupiers," but I suppose something more like "allies" who are (so the story line goes) "assisting" the fledgling government.vynx said:
Yeah, that's it ... we're "assisting."
pcosmar
member
Interesting, Is this just your unit, or one neighborhood? I have been folowing several Milblogs and I can't find it. The one Irag blog that I read often does not mention it at all. http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
I did a search on his site for Gun control and got nothing. I searched Weapons, and got some hits, but not as was described. In fact there are open Weapon Bazars that have every thing we don't have here.
I did a search on his site for Gun control and got nothing. I searched Weapons, and got some hits, but not as was described. In fact there are open Weapon Bazars that have every thing we don't have here.
2TransAms
Member
Very interesting. As long as the people vote for it. That's the Achilles of democracy,and it's why we have a Bill of Rights. But...aren't those rights supposed to be...human rights? If we believe in them so strongly why would Bush let Iraq set it up however they want? I don't have answers,the Forever War in Iraq and elsewhere is way too complicated for me to figure out.Wesker said:
progunner1957
member
What would happen if freedom fails?
If so, this brings up several questions we should all consider, to wit:
1: Will "The Government" actually turn the guns of the U.S military on U.S. civilians?
2: If this happens, what ruse will "The Government" use to justify it?
3: Will U.S. soldiers actually take our guns by force?
4: What about the soldier's duty to refuse to carry out unlawful orders?
5: Would an order to confiscate the firearms of U.S. citizens spark a mutiny in the ranks of the U.S. military?
6: Would military officers - sworn to "protect and defend the Constitution" - actually issue orders to confiscate U.S. citizen's firearms?
7: Would U.S. soldiers actually kill U.S. citizens who refuse to submit to firearms confiscation?
8: Would a U.S. President actually issue such an order to the military?
9: If this were to happen, what response would we see from gun owners?
10: If this were to happen, what (if any) recourse would we have as far as court action?
11: If this were to happen, what would you do?
Like Biker, I too worry that TallPine may be right.
If so, this brings up several questions we should all consider, to wit:
1: Will "The Government" actually turn the guns of the U.S military on U.S. civilians?
2: If this happens, what ruse will "The Government" use to justify it?
3: Will U.S. soldiers actually take our guns by force?
4: What about the soldier's duty to refuse to carry out unlawful orders?
5: Would an order to confiscate the firearms of U.S. citizens spark a mutiny in the ranks of the U.S. military?
6: Would military officers - sworn to "protect and defend the Constitution" - actually issue orders to confiscate U.S. citizen's firearms?
7: Would U.S. soldiers actually kill U.S. citizens who refuse to submit to firearms confiscation?
8: Would a U.S. President actually issue such an order to the military?
9: If this were to happen, what response would we see from gun owners?
10: If this were to happen, what (if any) recourse would we have as far as court action?
11: If this were to happen, what would you do?
JohnBT
Member
"Is the Bush administration even educating the Iraq people on our Bill of Rights??"
Why do they need to know about it, are they all moving here to become citizens?
John
Why do they need to know about it, are they all moving here to become citizens?
John
pcosmar
member
whats this?
Who's selling and who's buying?
Just found this disturbing report regarding some worrisomely big weapon bazaar in Qurna, the largest town at the center of the triangle formed by Basra, Nasiriya and Amara.
Qurna is located 6 kilometers from the Iranian border, population around 100,000 with a strong presence for Sadrists and there's a story running among thr locals that their town was the spot where Adam first landed at on earth after he was expelled from heaven.
Anyway...
I've been to Qurna many times during my internship in the northern suburbs of Bsara and I heard a lot from the locals about the huge weapon business in the area but it seems that with time, the quality of the business had grown wild; at that time, they mostly sold pistols, ak-47s and grenades. By the way the latter are a famous fishing tool in Iraq!
But now there are a few more exotic items on the menu:
Residents said the trade was not confined to small arms. They said smugglers openly put for sale mortars, rockets and landmines.
posted by Omar
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2006/02/whos-selling-and-whos-buying.html
This seems to be a diferent story.
Who's selling and who's buying?
Just found this disturbing report regarding some worrisomely big weapon bazaar in Qurna, the largest town at the center of the triangle formed by Basra, Nasiriya and Amara.
Qurna is located 6 kilometers from the Iranian border, population around 100,000 with a strong presence for Sadrists and there's a story running among thr locals that their town was the spot where Adam first landed at on earth after he was expelled from heaven.
Anyway...
I've been to Qurna many times during my internship in the northern suburbs of Bsara and I heard a lot from the locals about the huge weapon business in the area but it seems that with time, the quality of the business had grown wild; at that time, they mostly sold pistols, ak-47s and grenades. By the way the latter are a famous fishing tool in Iraq!
But now there are a few more exotic items on the menu:
Residents said the trade was not confined to small arms. They said smugglers openly put for sale mortars, rockets and landmines.
posted by Omar
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2006/02/whos-selling-and-whos-buying.html
This seems to be a diferent story.
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