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Are we under martial law?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by firearms_instructor, Jun 7, 2004.

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  1. firearms_instructor

    firearms_instructor Member

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    I'd like to hear definitive answers on this, preferably backed up by references any of us can check. It's a simple question, folks. I don't know the answer for sure, but I have an opinion. I'd like to hear from the legal scholars out there.

    Or is this question the "third rail"?

    Red pill? or blue pill?
     
  2. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Did I hear my name? :D :D :D

    To answer your question, no I don't believe we are under martial law per the "dictionary" definition. Are we getting there? I'll tell you come this November.
     
  3. itgoesboom

    itgoesboom member

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    I don't think that we are under martial law, yet. I see our leaders being faced with that decision before too long.

    Call me optimistic, but I still have hope that our great country can turn itself around peacefully through the processes laid out in the constitution. Hopefully Americans will wake up this November, and look beyond next couple of short years, and concentrate on where America can end up.

    I see this election as being the turning point in our history.

    If Kerry is elected, most of my hope will have disappeared.

    I.G.B.
     
  4. Sean Cloherty

    Sean Cloherty Member

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    AFAIK there is no power of "Martial Law" to be applied by the government of the U.S. against the citizens. It would seem to be something that a conquering miilitary would impose.

    I am not naive enough to think that the government wouldn't exercise or usurp powers not arrogated to them in the USC. In fact I think that about >70% of the FED.GOV is probably illegal. But that's only when I forget to take my medicine. :rolleyes:
     
  5. firearms_instructor

    firearms_instructor Member

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    OK, so far 3 people don't think so...

    But what if we were under martial law, and the feds just hadn't announced it because they didn't want everyone to know? What if we under under a quasi- clandestine martial law (don your tinfoil hats if you got 'em), and the feds just didn't want to make a big deal out of it? What if this has been going on since, say, the Civil War?

    C'mon, guys, lets see some RESEARCH, the truth has got to be out there somewhere. I'd like to see Supreme Court cases, etc.
     
  6. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    General Tejon reporting. Despite the best efforts of some provisions of the Patriot Act we are not under martial law.

    Keep watching the skies!:scrutiny:
     
  7. Blackcloud6

    Blackcloud6 Member

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    I think "martial law" is for B movies. No such thing as far as I know.
     
  8. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Wuz I seriously curious about ML and its provisions, I'd go Googling...

    :), Art
     
  9. mtnbkr

    mtnbkr Member

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    If that were the case, would it even matter? How would that be different "normal, everyday life"?


    Chris
     
  10. Group9

    Group9 Member

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    You guys need to get out of the house and go to some countries where there really are no freedoms. I have never appreciated that US as much as when I was coming back after spending time in other countries.

    Martial law? ***?
     
  11. itgoesboom

    itgoesboom member

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    Here is a place to start.

    I guess Martial Law can't be imposed while the courts are operating.

    HHmmmmmmm.

    I.G.B.
     
  12. Kes

    Kes Member

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    IIRC, there is an actual, official state known as "martial law" that's provided for somewhere in government policy.

    We aren't in "martial law", but we are in a "state of emergency" (and have been for a couple decades, I think); while in a state of emergency, the President can declare martial law at any time.


    This is all off the top of my head, so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. :)
     
  13. Sean Cloherty

    Sean Cloherty Member

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    The only power to change our constitutional republic (not democracy:banghead: ) is found here:

    Article. V.
    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

    The President is the chief LEO for the nation. As such he is charged with upholding the law, not suspending it and implementing rules of his own.

    Other than that the only relevant portion of the USC would seem to be regarding people imprisoned.

    The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
     
  14. Kes

    Kes Member

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    More information about martial law:

    http://www.gunowners.org/fs9905.htm#IV

    According to this document it's only been used twice - both times by President Lincoln. However, I seem to recall it was also used in Hawaii during WW2....

    :confused:
     
  15. firearms_instructor

    firearms_instructor Member

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    What abou the "war flag"?

    Can anyone explain the significance of the gold fringe around the US flag flown in federal courts?
     
  16. The_Antibubba

    The_Antibubba Member

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    Let's take that one step further

    The real question is: Are we already dead and in Hell, and nobody has told us?:scrutiny:
     
  17. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    The gold fringe? It has varying significance depending on how pliable your relationship with reality is.

    To you, me, the judge and pretty much everyone else, it means there's a nice decorative fringe on the flag. Not to my taste, but whatever. It has no effect upon any legal matter whatsoever.

    To Dale Gribble and the Heimlich County Militia, it means something about the admiralty that makes the court's jurisdiction in domestic matters null and void. This is why tax-evaders got the reputation of talking about the gold fringe--a lot of them thought they'd found a loophole. It's silly, but that's what they thought.

    Well, sure, that makes sense. We are under martial law, and they just haven't told us. They allow free speech, free association, protests, marches, people out past curfew, the RKBA and all the rest so we won't catch on. Maybe they're waiting for us to throw that one last really rockin' kegger so they can throw us out and foreclose on the Molon Labe frat house!
    Double Secret Martial Law Probation!
    :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:
     
  18. FPrice

    FPrice Member

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    firearms_instructor...

    "But what if we were under martial law, and the feds just hadn't announced it because they didn't want everyone to know?"

    Don Gwinn "may" have beat me to it but I was wondering if this was anything like "Double Secret Probation"?

    FWIW, I do not think we are under martial law or anywhere near it. But in some (many - ?) cases some people's/agencies actions may be mistaken for martial law.
     
  19. Sean Cloherty

    Sean Cloherty Member

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    Whoops - I was wrong! It appears that we are instituting it a little bit at a time. So no we are not under martial law, but the conversion is in progress.


    Boston's public transportation will now start random searches.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...004/06/08/t_to_check_packages_bags_at_random/

    If you go to the link - please also vote here in the survey.

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/06/08/tsurvey/

    For once I am glad that my job is moving to New Hampshire and that I will be driving 140 miles a day instead of relaxing on the commuter train.:uhoh:
     
  20. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Double secret probation?

    Meanwhile in Dean Ashcraft's office, flag with fringe in the corner:

    "Who put fizzies in the pool? THR, sir

    Who was out partying with the Bush daughters? El Tejon from THR, sir.

    Who sent a dead bear to the alumni association dinner? THR, sir.

    Who stays up all night cleaning guns and scanning the skies for black helicopters loaded with jackbooted pumas from the UN? THR, sir.

    There's only way to deal with them--DOUBLE SECRET MARTIAL LAW!"

    :neener:
     
  21. WT

    WT Member

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    The Territory of Hawaii was under martial law from Dec. 1941 to sometime in 1944. Civilians were tried in military courts for various "civilian" offenses. The Supreme Court eventually overturned most of the convictions. However, for awhile in WW2, the military ran the Hawaiian Islands.
     
  22. sm

    sm member

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    IIRC John Belushi's character in "Animal House" explained this well in his infamous "When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor"...Rant.

    I think we are supposed to use Old Continentals with suicide doors ...

    WE are being "infringed upon" ...I wouldn't call it Martial Law.
     
  23. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Member

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    I doubt the feds are thinking about hiding martial law. It is not necessary for the feds to declare martial law, even secretly, to get to a point that our fathers would have thought looked like martial law. Only our silence and inaction are necessary.
     
  24. Diggler

    Diggler Member

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    I'm subject to it.

    Leave the house only to work, or for specific necessary excursions...

    Limits on spending...

    Everything I do is watched...

    Overall loss of freedom...









    Oh, I thought you said MARITAL law!!
     
  25. firearms_instructor

    firearms_instructor Member

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    Just so we're all on the same page...

    Here's what some people have to say about the gold fringe. If they're full of BS, please show me where I can find a FACTUAL REFUTATION. I am willing to do my own research if someone can point the way to definitive facts.

    I'm not interested in opinions, I'm looking for hard-hanging evidence, because I really want to know the truth about this, no $h*t. If the federal courts are operating under Admiralty or quasi-martial jurisdiction, I need to know for sure. If the gold fringe has NO significance, I need to know. Facts. Please. Check out what some folks are saying about this:

    http://www.apfn.org/apfn/flag.htm
    http://user.icx.net/~drherb/fringe.html
    http://www.banned-books.com/truth-seeker/1994archive/121_5/ts215b.html
    http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-.../2004/05G-03-12-04-the-gold-fringed-flad.html
    http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/flag.htm
    http://www.freedomradio.us/articles/other/flag.htm
    http://www.barefootsworld.net/uscivilflag.html

    Some background on this: I have heard federal judges say (mostly off-the-record) that the Constitution is "irrelevant". I want to know if this is merely judicial arrogance, or do the b******ds know something we don't, and aren't planning to clue us in?
     
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