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Are you buying ammo at higher than market prices?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Tirod, Jan 30, 2014.

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  1. Queen_of_Thunder

    Queen_of_Thunder member

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    Actually your math is wrong. Its $75 pe 500 which also includes shipping costs. Also none of the calibers you mention will work in my Hammerli.
     
  2. huntsman

    huntsman Member

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    Since I consider the retail market prices to exorbitant there's no way in hell I'll pay higher quasi-black-market prices.
     
  3. Mike1234567

    Mike1234567 member

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    Conspiracy Theory: Maybe they're treating ammo like gasoline... drive the prices up to $4/gal so we're happy to see it come down to $3 and accept it never returning to $2.:D
     
  4. Tony k

    Tony k Member

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    I use the MSRP as a resaonable max price for me.

    I have to admit that in the months after Sandy Hook when antis werre foaming at the mouth for gun control, I paid too much for a firearm, but not ammo. I had been shopping around for an AR in the fall of 2012. My plan was to wait until after Christmas and hope that I could get a sale price on a particular AR I wanted (a remington varmint hunting model). Boy was that a mistake! After Sandy Hook, I was pretty convinced that an AWB was about to happen, so I paid $1200 for an $800 bushmaster. It wasn't even the one I wanted. Convincing myslef that paying 1.5 times the MSRP for that gun was a humbling and embarassing experience. But it was the only one I could find and better than not having one at all.

    Before Dec 2012 I took easy availability of ammo for granted. The way antis exploited the Sandy Hook tragedy changed me from a passive "fudd" to someone way more involved in the RTKBA and the real intent of the 2A. The tyrants came out of the woodwork, and I have to admit that I was shocked at their strident agression. So at the time (about a year ago) I was willing to pay a premium for certain things because I was one of those people not prepared.

    The events after Sandy Hook also got me in to reloading because I could'nt even find ammo for my 270! I started buying components here and there for all my calibers.

    I got in to bidding on gunbroker. Plenty of gouging there, but my strategy was to set my max bid at the MSRP from the manufacturer's website. I was outbid on 90% of the auctions, so I know for a fact that there are a lot of people out there who paid through the nose for guns, ammo, and reloading components in 2013.
     
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    No, but their BUYERS are. Just because someone buys a brick of .22 at $60 doesn't mean that IS the market value (for everyone), but it does influence the market value and help pull it up. Just as the fact that a few people can still buy that brick for $18 helps to draw it down. All of that works together to set market value.

    Ever buy lobster? Menu says, "market price." That doesn't mean some number the government sets, or that "Mr. Market" sells lobster for. That means, "whatever we can buy it for today -- as determined by mow much there is for sale, and how many people are trying to buy it." The guys holding out to get $30 per lb. are helping to set the market price just as much as the guys willing to let it go for $10 per lb.

    Oh, they have a better idea of the average market value at any given time than you or I, probably. But their store philosophy and strategy says they can afford to give up lost revenue on that product to keep people coming into the store and buying other things.

    In the end, that strategy hurts you -- if you don't like "scalpers" -- because devaluing that commodity gives the scalpers enough incentive to come in and buy them out every time the truck shows up. They know the market value is much higher than WalMart's price and so they'll make a tidy profit flipping it.

    If Walmart would use a dynamic price structure that followed the actual supply/demand curve, their price right now would be SOMEWHAT higher, (though they could still undercut the market a little), but it would remove the incentive for folks to buy ammo to resell.

    And, if would also soften up the resolve of the "hoarders" (you hate them too, right?) by making their decision to buy lots of extra a little more tempered by cost.
     
  6. MacTech

    MacTech Member

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    Nope, have not and will not buy ammo at HTMP, I will buy it at retail prices (self imposed upper limit on bulk/plinking ammo is around $25 or less, the closer prices get to that sub-$20 price the better, and it does get used, myself, my nephew and niece all shoot....

    As far as general backyard plinking goes, the airguns get the most trigger time, Benji 392 for me, Sheridan Blue Streak .20 and Daisy Red Ryder for nephew, Daisy Buck for niece....
     
  7. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    ^^^ SAM nailed it - well said!
     
  8. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Because we added several million more gun owners? because there are those who wait at the counter buying everything and then try to resell it? because we have folks who never had more than box or two at home and would just buy some on the way to the range now feeling the need to buy 5 year's worth?

    We are our own worst enemy in perpetuating this supply/demand situation. Everyone wants it to stop, but they are also the first to come on here and other boards and brag how they just cleaned out some supplier or store.
     
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Because bringing on more capacity in manufacturing, beyond "a little more," requires whole new manufacturing plants to be built.

    Lets see: feasibility studies undertaken and completed, new business plans/strategies written out, loans negotiated and approved, land bought, buildings designed, production lines designed and engineered, bidding, contract writing, bid awards, groudbreaking and construction of buildings, manufacturing, delivery, and installation of manufacturing equipment, fire suppression and other life-safety concerns handled, infrastructure improvements like new power lines and water management, environmental impact reviews and OSHA/EPA compliance reviews, staff hired and trained, resource streams increased ... if possible, logistics sorted out and about 100,000 other details. That's going to take more than a day or two. That's likely to take more than a YEAR or two.
     
  10. Devilfrog

    Devilfrog Member

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    Nope, have enough reloads and components to hold me over. .22LR is hard to find but I have managed to pick some up here and there at "normal" prices
     
  11. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

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    I have "set aside" ammo and reloading supplies for years. Used to keep ahead on hand what I would normally use up in 2 years. Then for some reason ten years ago I stepped it up to 5 years ahead supplies of reloading stuff and .22. Boy I am glad I had the funds and time to do it when looking back today. No purchases of any major stuff in 2 years and I can wait it out a fair while longer because I slowed down my ammo consumption and reloading experimentation for now.

    I also have several rolls of tin foil if some of you run short.:)
     
  12. housecat

    housecat Member

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    No. I refuse to pay more for 22 lr than I can reload center fire cartridges for. If the time comes that components are unavailable at reasonable price, I'll stop reloading. I've been wanting a RWS Model 48 for a long time. I have enough center fire components to have more than a few boxes of ammo each caliber.
     
  13. Queen_of_Thunder

    Queen_of_Thunder member

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    You forgot a major hurdle there which is Local Zoning Codes.
     
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator Emeritus

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    Ok, sure. I was envisioning the process for a firm that was simply going to expand next door to existing facilities.

    Even so, that's not always a perfectly seamless proposition. Municipalities and Counties often require impact studies and fees to see if the infrastructure (power, water, streets and traffic control, even schools to meet the needs of the families of new workers) can handle the new demand.
     
  15. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Cabelas will soon be opening a new store near where I live if they are gouging on reloading supplies, I will simply pass on buying anything from them and stick to online sources and local mom and pop shops who do not gouge.
     
  16. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    It isn't gouging, it is called RETAIL, and they have about 5 million in that new store they have to pay off.

    If you willingly pay their ASKING price, then you did not get "gouged". If you decide to not pay their asking price, you did not get gouged. It is, therefore, impossible to be gouged. You either decide that the price asked is worth it to you or it isn't.
     
  17. JTHunter

    JTHunter Member

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    In the past 2 years, the only ammo I have bought has been .38 Specials and .357 Magnum as that is what I need for my mother's gun and mine. The prices I paid were higher than I liked but still fairly reasonable. :rolleyes:
    The one that I overpaind for was some Winchester 555 bulk .22LR for $29.99. :fire: :cuss: At least that turned out to be the most reasonable price I've seen (when I've even been able to FIND .22s! :eek: ) in that same two years.
     
  18. PRM

    PRM Member

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    You can call it whatever makes you feel good, but it is what it is!

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/price-gouging

    "Price Gouging - Business Definition

    Taking advantage of a lack of competition and selling at an especially high price. For example, auto dealers are known to engage in price gouging when a much-sought-after model is in short supply.
    "
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  19. Blue Thunder

    Blue Thunder Member

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    The last commercial ammo I bought was before the 2008 Elections as I did not like what I saw. I already had a ton of reloading supplies from the Clinton years, boolits, primers, brass and powder. Having gotten my formulas down to two different powders and primers to two brands the rest is easy. That commercial ammo was 2K of Ranger T in 9MM, 1K of Ranger T in 40, and 1K of Ranger T in 45ACP. I already had 5 bricks of 22LR from the mid 1990's all of which go bang. I don't have to pay inflated prices as I likely have enough to last me until I go to the big range in the sky. I am down to shooting around 5K rounds of ammo per year now and I rotate the caliber when going to the range so I do not run supplies of one caliber down. This also does not count a few K of 38Spl and 357Mag that are not reloaded but the components are here.
     
  20. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    No, I walked right past a dozen federal 550 round bulk packs at Walmart a few hours ago. At almost $20 a box, I'll pass.
     
  21. KNO3

    KNO3 Member

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    I shoot 9mm, 223/5.56, and .22lr.

    Luckily, I was able to stockpile around 3 thousand rounds of 9mm and .223/5.56 and didn't need to pay the ridiculous prices we've seen over the last 2 years.

    The only ammo I purchased from a private individual was .22lr. I paid $.06- $.08 a round for Remington 525 rnd and/or Blazer 525 rnd boxes twice over the last 2 years, for a total of about 3500 rnds. I thought that was (and still is) a good deal and was thankful the guy was a decent human being.
    I did pay $30 for 100 rounds of CCI stingers about a year ago from my LGS, and out of shame, have not yet fired them.

    My local BiMart has consistently carried 5.56 for $.38 - $.40/rnd for the last 8 months or so. While that is higher than in years past, I can afford it.

    9MM has been hard to find at reasonable prices, so I'm getting low, but I can bide my time until I find a deal.

    I still find a lot of variability in ammo prices, but the overall trend is looking brighter.
     
  22. skoro

    skoro Member

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    I've purchased almost NO ammo at any price for the past year. Following the 2008-9 ammo panic, I slowly built up my stockpile so that I could avoid the next one. Which hit us in Dec 2012 and is still well underway.
     
  23. Tirod

    Tirod Member

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    Ok, let me ask another question: Is the price of ammo suffering the same market dynamics as propane?

    High demand, shortage of supply, high prices.

    My mother in law always made it a point to resupply propane in the summer when market price was lowest. While a large majority of respondents in the thread have said they won't buy ammo at "high" prices, some have said they do, and will continue to do so. Price isn't an issue to them.

    Maybe it WAS a loaded question, and it's been pretty obvious those that ARE spending more than many of us would tolerate have no regard for our reasoning. THEY WILL SPEND WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET AMMO.

    Some later decide they won't do it again, others are still doing it with no remorse whatsoever. Therefore, nothing posted on the internet is going to sway them. They are likely laughing at the "whiners" who can't play the game on the new playing field.

    The market demographic of firearms ownership has obviously moved up the income scale and the result under panic conditions is that the less economically blessed among us are being left behind. That implies that buyers of firearms who enjoy multiple purchases a year are the cause of the current situation.

    Just because they haven't raised their hands to id themselves in this conversation doesn't mean they aren't out there. It puts the buyers squarely in the ballpark as gun enthusiasts who don't lack the resources to spend for ammo.

    So what we are hearing about it are those with less money or will to purchase ammo, trying to get the rules changed so those with more money can't dominate the game.

    That's like saying that football players have to be equal in muscle mass to play a fair game, or putting a height restriction on pro basketball players.

    That kind of thinking leads to laws making things "fair," when in reality, it restricts our rights. Non gun owners are trying to do that as we speak - outlaw guns to make it "fair."

    I don't care for the price of ammo right now either, but I'm not going to play into the hands of those who would support MORE restrictions on the industry and my rights. I see past my personal interests to the bigger picture. Others don't, and to get what they want, they would sell us out to get it.

    The current situation on ammo prices is no different than propane in that regard. What did the propane industry do? They turned around a tanker full to make a better profit on selling it here, not overseas.

    It's what we do, if you want ammo, either reload, or pay more. Those are the choices, not posting on the net about how you can't play the game.

    We really didn't get to many who replied they were spending more. That's because MOST are, and it's obvious. The ammo is still flying off the shelf, they voted with their pocket books. They don't reload, they don't have large stocks in reserve, they just pay it and move on. The stuff certainly isn't piling up on the mark down shelf for lack of sales.
     
  24. plmitch

    plmitch Member

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    I'm paying current market value and I'm fine with it. Shooting is an expensive hobby, can't afford then don't do it.
     
  25. Duckdog

    Duckdog Member

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    I actually t to see one of the profiteers in person yesterday afternoon. I stopped at the local Walmart and they had what appeared to be 4 boxes 22 LR behind the glass at a reasonable price, so being no one was there, I proceeded to wait for the clerk. After about 5 minutes, a gal pulls up on one of those motorized carts, and goes back and forth over and over, looking at the ammo. Well, we start talking and she asks if I'm waiting, and I tell her yes. She then proceeds to tell me how her son, who works in the automotive department called her, but she did not say why. Well, eventually a fellow shows up and asks if what I'm looking for and she blats out she want 3 boxes of that 22 LR ammo before he even finishes his sentence.. He asks me again what I would like and I said, well, I guess just one of those boxes now, because she is thinking she's going to get her max of 3 boxes per day regardless of me, who was there first by a longshot. The fellow then says he has more behind the others, so I tell him three then. She then gets all pissy and asked him why she can not have more and because there is no law regarding a limit, and that she should get all she wants. The clerk calmly tells her that it is to stop the scalping of ammo preventing all but just a few people from cleaning out the ammo to re-sell and that is why the store policy is just three boxes. He then went on the tell her that it's the same few people that are buying all the 22 ammo and are there right at 7:00 AM every morning. He also told me later she was one of those people. He told me that what they have done was hold off stocking ammo on the shelves until different times each day they get it in to screw these few folks up. It was pretty obvious to me that this gals son called her when he knew they had restocked, so his "scalping" mom could come down and fill up again. Now some can defend that all they want, but it's just plain screwing the working person who has a job that can not be there every day to clean the ammo out. IMO it's a sad way of existence feeding off the market like that. This ammo scare is no different than the others, except that now we have outlets on the internet that allow these folks to do business like no other time before. In the past, they would have bought all of this product and would have had to advertise in the paper or use word of mouth to get rid of it. Now they can advertise nation wide with the click of a button via craigs list or gun broker, etc.

    Ehen people realize what is going on and decide to stop supporting these people, gun related products will appear on the shelf again.
     
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