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Arg.. gotta pull 200+ reloads...

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Anmut, Mar 3, 2013.

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  1. edfardos

    edfardos Member

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    I've shot thousands of 180's with 6.5 grains of aa#5 (spp). Mostly plated berry's and xtreme seated to 1.125. I shot a few at 6.7 too.. Around 875fps iirc.. Mag primer might add 30-50fps.

    I'd shoot'm,

    edfardos
     
  2. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    I know the feeling, I just pulled about 150 rounds of 7mm RM a couple of days ago using the old trusty kinetic hammer method, yuk!

    GS
     
  3. 35 Whelen

    35 Whelen Member

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    Lighten up Pee Wee. I'm not bashing anyone's gun.

    If a firearm is known to have an inherent weakness, why own it be it a S&W, Colt, Taurus, Ruger or Glock?

    Toyota had a recall of vehicles due to the possibility of the accelerator sticking in some of their 2009/2010 models. Knowing this problem existed, would you buy one of the recalled models? Me neither...

    35W
     
  4. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    There's plenty of 40 S&W that don't have fully supported chambers.

    But.. I wouldn't bash Glocks because they're more popular (and have proportionally more kabooms reported) than other brands.

    It's a handgun.

    Load responsibly.

    (But ... not fearfully. If you proof up to or past that load in .1 gr increments, and you're not seeing guppy bellies or flattened primers, SHOOT THEM.)

    Can't live life in a bubble-wrapped room.
     
  5. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Hey its PeeWee now, huh? Why doesnt that surprise me any. Again, you sure are being helpful in this reloading thread. Real High Road again. You sure are an asset to this forum, let me tell you.

    This was a question about variances in load data. You chose the low road and started in on Glocks, and now choose it again in name calling. I think its fantastic that you show us all how helpful you are!
     
  6. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

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    Before things go south, let's take the High Road and get back to helping the OP. :D
     
  7. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

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    What Trent said. I load for all kinds of .40's, including Glocks. And if a reloader is using the tried and tested methods, he, or she, should never have problems because of a weapons inherent characteristics. It's the nature of the hobby, as is using sensible work up procedures.

    GS
     
  8. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I feel your pain. I recently broke down 500 .303 Brit reloads because my Enfields don't like boat-tailed bullets, and they were keyholing every time.
     
  9. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    Sounds like a plan!
     
  10. Lost Sheep

    Lost Sheep Member

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    Reverse engineering on factory ammunition?

    Unless you know what powder and primer they used, you are shooting in the dark. No one I have ever heard of has ever reverse engineered factory ammunition.

    Yes, you have a learning event here.

    You loaded a boatload of ammunition with an unproven powder charge. Unproven by research and unproven in your gun through diligent workup. The good new is that your 200 rounds are mid-range in one manual's data, so might be perfectly fine.

    If you had started at 5.6 grains you might have found them not powerful enough to cycle the action and would have moved up in charge weight. Eventually, you might have gotten up to 6.4 and found them safe in your gun.

    My advice: Put these aside. Work up a load your gun likes. If the load is a lot less than the 6.2-6.4 grains in your set aside cartridges, pull the bullets. If the load you work up to your liking is in the 6.2 to 6.4 grains, then there never was any need to pull them.

    Most of the kabooms in Glocks are attributed to shooting jacketed bullets in their polygonal barrels that had a buildup of leading. Easily solved by 1) judicious cleaning of the lead or 2) using aftermarket barrels with conventional rifling.

    Lost Sheep
     
  11. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    You are hitting on the truth of the issue right there. If the OP would read about load development he would know that you should always look for at least TWO sources of data for a particular load. Then you can decide on where to start.

    Safety would dictate that he loads a few rounds a few tenths of a grain under what he has loaded now, and work his way up to it, just to be sure they are safe.

    Personally I dont ever start at the bottom of load data with an autoloader. Its a waste of time in many cases as it may not even cycle the slide. I usually start midway in the load data and work my way up looking for groups and anything out of the ordinary. When I find accuracy without undue dirtyness, we have a load.
     
  12. kingmt

    kingmt Member

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    Hate to tell you but load data from someone else is just that someone else's data. It is where they started & finished. You don't have their gun. Brass is different, chambers are different, feed ramps are different, slides, springs, & actions are all different. If you want true starting load work down to the last round that will function your slide & burns clean then add .2gn. If there is no signs of pressure then this is your start load. Now you can work up to where you see fit. If you can't do this without signs of pressure your going to have to change spring, powder, or bullet.
     
  13. mgmorden

    mgmorden Member

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    Hornady's manual (8th ed) for that bullet lists a range for AA#5 at 5.9 to 7.3gr at 1.125" OAL.

    Speer (13th ed) naturally doesn't have info on the Hornady bullet but for a 180gr Gold Dot (similar bullet type) they list a range for AA#5 at 7.0 to 7.8gr at 1.120" OAL.

    As you note Lee lists 6.2 to 7.0gr.

    You're well within the LOWER half of listed data from 3 manuals. Personally I wouldn't hesitate at all to shoot what you have loaded.
     
  14. Anmut

    Anmut Member

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    ljnowell - I'm getting some leakage out of where the device rotates - very very small amounts but enough to throw the load off. I've been meaning to take it apart and see *** is going on but because I load light I don't worry about it - well unless I find that there are significant differences in load data!!
     
  15. Anmut

    Anmut Member

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    Thanks to everyone on this thread that offered sound advice - I'm keeping the rounds assembled for now but I did order a bullet puller and collet just in case.

    I loaded 15 at a lighter load that I'm going to test and then work up from there. I've loaded 1000's of 44mag / 45acp / 223 so by no means am I new to this but, like anything in life, it's a learning process.

    The .40 caliber's pressure and the glock's unsupported barrel and the many KB's that i've read about made my pucker factor rise enough to the point of where I thought I would seek the advice from the guys at THR.

    Ya'll have done your part well - and I'll update this thread after I put some rounds down range.
     
  16. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

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    That leakage is coming out of the hopper, on top of the disk or charge bar, not from underneath. All AA powders leak from the lee measure. It shouldnt be affecting charge weight though. I would stick to thje data from Accurate, and no one elses, if it were me(which I do).
     
  17. rondog

    rondog Member

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    I take it a lot of you don't have to drive 2 hours to try out loads and experiment. That gets expensive.
     
  18. Lost Sheep

    Lost Sheep Member

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    A nice drive is a nice drive. Provided the road to your range is a nice drive. If not, you have my sympathies. The road north from Anchorage is pleasant in the summer, and I/we stop for a nice breakfast on the way and make a day of it. Break some clay pigeons, punch some holes in paper.

    All that is beside the point, though. Proper, safe load development is worth a drive.

    I know that you know this. Not everyone reading this thread will.

    Lost Sheep
     
  19. higgite

    higgite Member

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    Funny, my Lee 2nd Edition says in their 40 S&W section "Do not use reloads in Glocks or similar guns with chambers that do not fully support the cartridge due to the intrusion of the feed ramp." I don't believe I'd use Lee's data if I was reloading for a 40 S&W Glock, but maybe that's just me.
     
  20. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

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    Well, two things.

    Handloaders are prone to "push" their loads.

    And ... handloaders (especially new ones) are prone to being idiots who don't pay attention to the rules, particularly neck tension, proper load development, and seating depth.

    One thing you ABSOLUTELY have to avoid on the little 40 S&W is bullet setback, or deep seating. A "moderate" load can go to "critical mass" in just a few hundredths of an inch on 40 S&W, ramping pressures up from ~40k to ~70K+.

    Shooting ammunition out of an unsupported chamber is something I do just about every weekend. Have done so for 15 years, shooting reloads, and still have all my fingers.

    Proper load development on an unsupported chamber should be:

    1. Load 5 rounds each, from the starting load on up, with .2gr increments.
    2. Each batch of expended casings, bag in a ziplock and label (so you can examine under good light, later)
    3. Watch and FEEL for "guppy belly" as you progress. This is a sign that the pressures are starting to exceed the web strength.
    4. STOP when the guppy bellies are easily detectable on 4/5 or all of ejected cartridges. (3/5 or more if shooting mixed brass)
    5. Pull down remaining cartridges.

    Also, try to keep headstamps THE SAME. If you are shooting mixed brass, SORT it by headstamp. Some brass is naturally harder than others, or have walls / webs of differing thickness.

    Glocks have an unsupported chamber that exceeds the webbing area. You'll notice guppy bellies starting with a circular line .230" or so from the base; the thick web extends only .180" on most brands of brass. Thus the guppy belly will be a bulge that is more pronounced towards the front edge.

    Pay CLOSE attention to your seating depth and tension. Load dummy rounds with that brand of brass (no powder or primers) and test chambering 2-3x each, measuring before and after, by releasing the slide from full-rear (do not guide forward). This will give you an idea of how much setback you will experience. If the setback is .010" or greater, that's bad, on a high-pressure 40S&W. You will almost always see SOME setback on repeated chamberings but it should only be .002 to .005".

    The reason we test load 5x each level is because not every piece of brass is the same, not every powder meter is the same, and not every bullet will set back the same on chambering. Shooting a string of 5 each on load development will give you the minimum amount I'd consider using for load development. (I usually do 5 for each gun I own in that caliber).

    The reason to bag the brass and label it separately after firing is so you can examine it closer back at home, with magnification and good light. You might see stuff you miss when casually observing it at the range.

    That's my advice.
     
  21. 109Hammer

    109Hammer Member

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    +1.
     
  22. OrangePwrx9

    OrangePwrx9 Member

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    An opportunity is being missed, here. Buy a Browning HP in .40 S&W and shoot 'em up. You NEED that BHP to properly dispose of these potentially hazardous reloads. It's good to have the proper tool available when there's a problem. :evil:

    Doesn't that sound better than spending an evening in the basement banging away with a bullet puller?
     
  23. Catpop

    Catpop Member

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    An option no one mentioned is send them to Catpop for proper disposal!:neener:
     
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