Arizona ammo supplier to Las Vegas massacre gunman gets prison time: reports

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Bet he doesn’t feel so cool now.:cool:

The shooting, while related, is not why this guy went to jail.
He went to jail because he felt he didn’t need to get all the licenses and pay all the fees that everyone else does.
If you make rimfire ammunition without a license that’s a felony too, even though incendiary and armor piercing sound scary.
Lots of things are against the law if you don’t get the license first. Driving for instance.

This is why you don’t sell your handloads. I didn’t read the article and don’t care to. I read enough about morons and the insane. I will blindly assume this twit had no idea his friend was going to go crazy. But this is the precise reason not to sell your ammunition.(Without proper licensing, anyway.)

Rest assured his prison is not like Rikers Island.
I don’t know that it should be, but he made the mistake, the point is moot now.

Don’t drop the soap...
 
Bet he doesn’t feel so cool now.:cool:

The shooting, while related, is not why this guy went to jail.
He went to jail because he felt he didn’t need to get all the licenses and pay all the fees that everyone else does.
If you make rimfire ammunition without a license that’s a felony too, even though incendiary and armor piercing sound scary.
Lots of things are against the law if you don’t get the license first. Driving for instance.

This is why you don’t sell your handloads. I didn’t read the article and don’t care to. I read enough about morons and the insane. I will blindly assume this twit had no idea his friend was going to go crazy. But this is the precise reason not to sell your ammunition.(Without proper licensing, anyway.)

Rest assured his prison is not like Rikers Island.
I don’t know that it should be, but he made the mistake, the point is moot now.

Don’t drop the soap...
VERY good point. I have lost track of the times someone has asked me "why not" when it comes to stuff like this. This is why I tell them. I am sure he "thought" it was real cool to make some cash making ammo. I am sure he thought nothing would ever come of it. The point is why take the risk in the first damn place. Now he ruined his life over making a few bucks.
 
Was this this guy's only job?

The ammo makers daytime job was aerospace engineer. His career is now trashed.

"Haig, a 55-year-old aerospace engineer who sold ammunition as a hobby for about 25 years, was charged 35 minutes before holding a news conference where he said he didn’t notice anything suspicious when he sold the tracer rounds to Paddock."
 
While I am glad to read that the man is ‘doing time’ for his criminal act I think it is too lenient because is acts was contributory to the mass casualties of the Las Vegas shooting. He was up to no good, and he helped make something no good happen.
 
While I am glad to read that the man is ‘doing time’ for his criminal act I think it is too lenient because is acts was contributory to the mass casualties of the Las Vegas shooting. He was up to no good, and he helped make something no good happen.
How do you know he was up to no good? Do you have a link to some more info?
 
VERY good point. I have lost track of the times someone has asked me "why not" when it comes to stuff like this. This is why I tell them. I am sure he "thought" it was real cool to make some cash making ammo. I am sure he thought nothing would ever come of it. The point is why take the risk in the first damn place. Now he ruined his life over making a few bucks.

Hey... welcome to the new guy.

Same could be said of all the people selling multiple guns per year private party and bragging about the money they made because they got it originally at such a great price. Maybe they shoud consider that its time for them to get a FFL before the wrong people say they're running a business.


That guy was doing it for a couple decades. That's a long time to play under the table and not get kicked in the face.
 
While I am glad to read that the man is ‘doing time’ for his criminal act I think it is too lenient because is acts was contributory to the mass casualties of the Las Vegas shooting. He was up to no good, and he helped make something no good happen.

The Vegas shooter was insanely wealthy. He could have gotten ammo anywhere else he wanted to. There is nothing that says the AZ guys ammo was actually used in the shooting, only that it was in a loaded mag in the hotel room.
As far as "criminal" act of making ammo as a hobby and then selling it, technically, you shouldn't need an FFL for such activities, so I don't understand why you're so upset about it. His hobby may have grown over 25yrs to become more of a business-type situation where he may have crossed some threshold where it needed to be licensed, but there is not enough info to determine if that is the case or not.
I find it sad that a gun owner is glad that another gun owner got prosecuted over a possible violation of a likely un-Constitutional law.
 
The ammo makers daytime job was aerospace engineer. His career is now trashed.

"Haig, a 55-year-old aerospace engineer who sold ammunition as a hobby for about 25 years, was charged 35 minutes before holding a news conference where he said he didn’t notice anything suspicious when he sold the tracer rounds to Paddock."
IMHO Paddock was just plain Evil. He did what he did just because he wanted to...
 
Especially over 25 years...

Un-Constitutional or not, I am fairly certain this would have come up over that time period.
Maybe. I'm always surprised at how ignorant many gun owners can be. Just look at all the questions that get asked on forums like this that can be answered in minutes with a simple internet search. I know a Vietnam vet who's a huge gun collector who brought his relative in New Jersey a shotgun. Just brought it there and gave it to him. Dude has bought and sold hundreds of guns over the last few decades and didn't have the slightest idea that doing a private interstate transfer like that was illegal. I know two FFL's who think that it's perfectly legal to do private interstate transfers between relatives without an FFL.
 
Not really. You do this particular crime (selling reloaded ammo without a license) and most of the time, you get away with it without even knowing you committed a crime at all.

Ignorance of the law has never been a excuse for innocence. And if he had been reloading for enough time to be selling and making a profit, he knew the law.
And obviously this "is not most of the time". A person could sell Alcohol to minors and nothing happen most of the time. But if that minor were to get in a major accident while driving and injuring or worse, then all hell would rain down on that person. He committed a Crime and now he is going to jail. I have no pity for him.
 
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Hey... welcome to the new guy.

Same could be said of all the people selling multiple guns per year private party and bragging about the money they made because they got it originally at such a great price. Maybe they shoud consider that its time for them to get a FFL before the wrong people say they're running a business.


That guy was doing it for a couple decades. That's a long time to play under the table and not get kicked in the face.
Before they changed the law here I often bought and sold. Loved being able to buy some gun, play a while, sell it to try something else. I was ALWAYS careful. When selling I would ask the caller, you a resident of this state? If so I will need ID, I am going to write you a bill of sale. If this made the buyer not want the gun, great. I have seen people who were really pushing this line, the selling, mainly shows when they were still worth going to. To me? It was not worth the risk however small. Now that they passed law that we can't sell face to face here I do not do it. MANY gun owners still do. They may go the rest of their life and never have a problem. I will not. Now I seldom sell as it means taking a loss. The few times I did sell and took a loss to me it was well worth it. I could easily find buyers who wanted to skirt the state law here and it would have meant I could get all my money back out of a gun. To me this slight amount of cash was no way worth the risk, however small, that I would get into a legal bind over it. Every time some gun owner does something stupid and gets caught I am sure they wish they had not done it. Little late then.
 
So, all this hate for a guy selling ammo. This coming from many here who normally say "it's not the gun, it's the guy holding it."

If his ammo was used in the shooting that's unfortunate, but I would put the same burden on him as an arms maker, you don't know who will do what with your product.

Are other unlicensed ammo makers sentenced to the same time for the same crime? If not, giving him extra time because this nut job just happened to have his ammo on him seems unjust. I'm going to hazard a guess that based on his main job he had a clean record. First time non violent offenders normally don't get felony time, especially on just a license violation. I'm not condoning what he did, but once the media gets involved, all bets are off.

I guess even rocket scientists do stupid things.
 
Hey... welcome to the new guy.

Same could be said of all the people selling multiple guns per year private party and bragging about the money they made because they got it originally at such a great price. Maybe they shoud consider that its time for them to get a FFL before the wrong people say they're running a business.


That guy was doing it for a couple decades. That's a long time to play under the table and not get kicked in the face.
Except private firearms sales where it is legal isn't illegal. Selling surplus factory ammo isn't either. Making ammo and selling it is illegal..Unless authorized (licensed) to do so.
 
I find it sad that a gun owner is glad that another gun owner got prosecuted over a possible violation of a likely un-Constitutional law.

I agree with this, but law is law. Once it becomes law then it should be followed. Take proper legal action to get laws amended before disregarding the law and blatantly violating it. Many here would agree that the NFA laws, California’s “approved list” and other serious “infringements” are unconstitutional yet we live within them and try to change them. I’m betting that this guy wishes he had done the same, I bet the value of his defense and his blown career would be appreciated if it had been a donation to ILA or some other group. However he disregarded and now it’s on the news and drawing negative attention to a facet of the hobby that generally escapes media and legislative attention. We as a community Should not support this jackass but we should condemn him and his actions because it’s the most likely reloading event in my recollection to bring about any new laws. Let’s hope that it doesn’t, but I can see the demands coming that people must be licensed to buy more than X amount of gunpowder and Y amount of primers per month/quarter/year. Or that they develop a form similar to a 4473 and we suddenly have to take possession locally from a licensed seller and pay for background checks on top of hazmat shipping.
 
Well, had it not been sold to Paddock, he would still be free and making and selling his "homemade" ammo.
So, the lesson here is.....I don't know.
He is wrong to be selling "homemade" ammo without a license, but no one would have ever known if it wasn't for Paddock.
 
for all of you talking about how much of what, I can tell you, if the media is hounding the government to act, and the media goes out and plays detective, and decides someone else needs to be brought in, you can give the killer one round, or give him $5 in gas one his way to his destination, and the state will go after you. No one want to sabotage their long term political career because they didn't prosecute an accessory offender 20 years earlier.
There is a real danger to administrative authority, allowing pressure to determine whether an undefined law was crossed.
 
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